It made it easy to replace him but not easy to pretend that anybody could be plugged into OL and nobody would know the difference or care.

Posted By Raboy on 12 Jun 2009 09:55 AM
It made it easy to replace him but not easy to pretend that anybody could be plugged into OL and nobody would know the difference or care.

But isn’t that what they've done with every other series they’ve ever published? If no author is special, then NO AUTHOR IS SPECIAL. Einstein’s definition of insanity: repeating same procedure, expecting different result.

Better to bring up the truth than to pretend repetition of bad treatment makes it okay.

Posted By Daniel on 12 Jun 2009 12:00 PM
Better to bring up the truth than to pretend repetition of bad treatment makes it okay.

I'm really not getting this. Obviously GE thinks it's okay. They've been running the same bs for more than a quarter century.  The idea that acting continually shocked and outraged by what's happened to OL is going to change anything is just ...  well, I give up.

Posted By AP on 12 Jun 2009 10:35 AM 
Einstein’s definition of insanity: repeating same procedure, expecting different result.

LOL!

In that case all those DL fans who have been posting about new guns for the last 10 years must really be lunatics!

IMO it doesn't hurt to remind the so-called GE editors that not all of the readership have no memories or can't tell the difference between a good book and a bad book.

The fans of your DL novels have been doing the same thing.

Posted By Raboy on 12 Jun 2009 02:11 PM

Posted By AP on 12 Jun 2009 10:35 AM 
Einstein’s definition of insanity: repeating same procedure, expecting different result.

LOL!

In that case all those DL fans who have been posting about new guns for the last 10 years must really be lunatics!

IMO it doesn't hurt to remind the so-called GE editors that not all of the readership have no memories or can't tell the difference between a good book and a bad book.

The fans of your DL novels have been doing the same thing.

What all this comes off as, IMHO, is public masturbation. It might get you (and three or four others) off to endlessly flog the issue/thereby renewing your tumescent agitation, but trust me, after the first hundred or so exposures (a number surpassed in early 2005, BTW) it ceases to be a crowd-pleaser. It has become the OL equivalent of “new guns for Ryan and the companions,” which some posters on this forum (you included) have implied is a topic for wankers.

As to what DL fans do or don’t do in regard to my work on the series, it’s moot. But for the one book left in the pipeline I am gone.

Since the 'new guns for DL" crowd was defended by pointing out  that though the topic was a groaner for veteran board members there were new members who hadn't been exposed to it as much and they shouldnt be cheated out of the chance to become as sick of it as the rest of us.

The same standard should apply here.

Besides as long as your DL books are read it isn't moot. So-called GE editors can try to get readers to believe that you didn't write them but if we know better why should we cooperate with that?

Posted By Raboy on 12 Jun 2009 03:51 PM
Since the 'new guns for DL" crowd was defended by pointing out  that though the topic was a groaner for veteran board members there were new members who hadn't been exposed to it as much and they shouldnt be cheated out of the chance to become as sick of it as the rest of us.

The same standard should apply here.

You’re right. Ron should add two folders: DL shit we are sick of; OL shit we are sick of. All newbies would be directed there to interact with each other (until they burn out on the topics) before posting on the big people’s board.

Eventually, of course, the entire content of the site would be put in one folder or the other, but still that should get us well into 2020 ...

Posted By AP on 11 Jun 2009 10:08 PM

Posted By Raboy on 11 Jun 2009 06:29 PM .

Agreed--too bad GE looks at that quality as a drawback and not an asset.

Made it real hard to replace him with any old hack who needed to make a car payment!

Uhh, you got it assbackwards. If GE looks at quality as a drawback, wouldn't it make it real EASY to replace him?

Actually Raboy said GE looked at Mark's talent as a drawback, but they probably look at at quality period as a drawback, too.

Is that the way it has to be if you're a full-time GE writer--the worse you are, the safer you are?

Posted By Cerberus Man on 13 Jun 2009 10:53 AM

Is that the way it has to be if you're a full-time GE writer--the worse you are, the safer you are?

I worked for them for 25 years, I think only Mike Newton has worked for them longer, guess that makes me one of the worst of the worst.

Actually, GE is oblivious to your conception of "talent" and "quality."  All it cares about is whether the entertainment units maintain a minimum level of sales. A numbers game. It takes a couple years (so they say) to figure out how well each unit sells, so each newbie author has a built-in grace period.  As I understand it, if sales of a particular author show a steady decline over several titles (that can't be compensated for by sales of the other authors working on the series), it's bye-bye time.  But in reality, because of the pressure of the production schedule you have to screw up pretty badly to get the axe--as in (my personal favorite) take their advance money but never write the books. 

Posted By AP on 13 Jun 2009 11:50 AM 
As I understand it, if sales of a particular author show a steady decline over several titles (that can't be compensated for by sales of the other authors working on the series), it's bye-bye time. 

Maybe thats why Victor Milan complained on his blog that he had been booted off the Rogue Angel series--he was bitching about the bad reviews on Amazon.

I looked at them and surprise! they were virtually the same kind of criticisms posted about his OL books.

Posted By Raboy on 14 Jun 2009 08:16 AM
Maybe thats why Victor Milan complained on his blog that he had been booted off the Rogue Angel series--he was bitching about the bad reviews on Amazon.

I looked at them and surprise! they were virtually the same kind of criticisms posted about his OL books.

I know it's really exciting to find someone who agrees with you , and sorry to break your bubble (not really), but there is no evidence that bad reviews by a handful of people on Amazon have any correlation to book sales. 

I have been told that GE doesn't sell many books on Amazon, and that its powers-that-be pay no attention to them or to Amazon rankings.  Witness the reviewers who complained endlessly about some of Andy Boot's DL books, but people BOUGHT THEM anyway.

Some bestsellers get bad reviews on Amazon and still remain bestsellers. Witness Lee Childs' recent Jack Reacher book, Nothing to Lose: 360 reviews (not a measly three or four), and a two-and-a-half star average.

I'm not saying bad reviews don't matter.  I'm saying the effect is indeterminant, except for the mad-thumping of the reviewers' hearts and the reddening of their faces. 

Sorry to break your bubble but it was Milan who brought up the bad Amazon reviews of his Rogue Angel and him being booted from the series.

The conclusion you can draw is that the bad reviews could be a reflection of the overall sales of his RA books or it could be something else entirely.

I don't care one way or the other--I don't read the RA series.

Going by what Mark posted on his own forum a while ago, GE sometimes contracts books years in advance of their publication.

By the time the bad reviews of the books by Andy Boot (or even Victor Milan) started piling up, five or six could have already been bought and put on the publication schedule.

So it might seem like people are continually buying books they don't like, but in reality the books could have been scheduled a couple of years before.

If bad reviews reflect poor sales, GE wouldn't see a correlation for at least that length of time.

Posted By Raboy on 14 Jun 2009 11:44 AM
Sorry to break your bubble but it was Milan who brought up the bad Amazon reviews of his Rogue Angel and him being booted from the series.

The conclusion you can draw is that the bad reviews could be a reflection of the overall sales of his RA books or it could be something else entirely.

I don't care one way or the other--I don't read the RA series.

I just read the blog post. Although Milan mentions getting taken off RA and several paragraphs later the negative reviews on Amazon, he makes no direct connection between the two. Sounds to me like he just wants people who like his books to review them. 

I'm sure it means the world to him that you don't read RA. I know it nearly brought me to tears.

Posted By Daniel on 14 Jun 2009 12:18 PM
Going by what Mark posted on his own forum a while ago, GE sometimes contracts books years in advance of their publication.

By the time the bad reviews of the books by Andy Boot (or even Victor Milan) started piling up, five or six could have already been bought and put on the publication schedule.

So it might seem like people are continually buying books they don't like, but in reality the books could have been scheduled a couple of years before.

If bad reviews reflect poor sales, GE wouldn't see a correlation for at least that length of time.

As far as I know Mark Ellis is the only author who got that many book contracts in advance--because he was the creator and only author on the OL series for years.   Like I said, GE doesn't care about Amazon because they don't sell many books that way.  

Posted By AP on 14 Jun 2009 01:50 PM
I just read the blog post. Although Milan mentions getting taken off RA and several paragraphs later the negative reviews on Amazon, he makes no direct connection between the two. Sounds to me like he just wants people who like his books to review them. 

I'm sure it means the world to him that you don't read RA. I know it nearly brought me to tears.

Milan posted 'I’ve been less-than-ceremoniously dumped from writing for the series" and then complains about the bad Amazon reviews. Same post and same topic. Thats the connection.

Milan and you could cry me a river...and I sill woulnd't read Rogue Angel!

Posted By Raboy on 14 Jun 2009 04:01 PM

 

Milan posted 'I’ve been less-than-ceremoniously dumped from writing for the series" and then complains about the bad Amazon reviews. Same post and same topic. Thats the connection.

Do you practice defiant stupidity on a daily basis, or is it just a weekend thing? If it’s the former, it must be a real challenge for the people who have to interact with you.

You just happened to be reading Vic’s blog? An author you clearly despise? But not really looking for something (anything) to support your oft-repeated opinions? Strange hobby, but I guess it makes a nice change from pulling wings off flies. The flies probably appreciate it, too.

Milan in his comments page says he didn't like the reviewers take of Annja Creed. saying she acted 1}like a man 2} socipathic. Then in the comments page he describe why he wrote Outlanders the way he did.

1. GE didn't want him to touch the main charcters.
2.Stay away from major events.

Sounds like he did no.2 without doing no.1. So there is a question of whether or not he read the novels or was constrained by GE.

In the end he says he hopes GE gives him his own series.

Posted By AP on 14 Jun 2009 04:45 PM

You just happened to be reading Vic’s blog? An author you clearly despise? But not really looking for something (anything) to support your oft-repeated opinions? Strange hobby, but I guess it makes a nice change from pulling wings off flies. The flies probably appreciate it, too.

What opinions do you mean? I read a lot of blogs  instead of getting on the muscle over trivia--something you apparently you enjoy very much. Go to town, dude.