The fact is I could not in good conscience have Doc say "By the Three Kennedys!"  I wrote it out once and then immediately deleted it.  If I have the companions come out of a redoubt in Massachussetts and they find themselves captured by a Kennedy cult who dress Krysty up like Jackie-O and strap Ryan into the backseat of a remote controlled convertible Cadillac rolling towards a grassy knoll while the ville inhabitants cheer wildly in vintage "Mad Men" garb and JB cries out to an unlistening Deathlands that "The lone gunman theory is ballistically impossible!"  Sure, the LBJanite High Priest can intone "By The Three Kennedys . . . " as he takes off the parking break.  No problem.  (Not a bad idea for a book . . .) 

Doc saying it?  It makes no sense, and worse it's awkward and clearly contrived.  Since Doc is a living antique, when I write him I have him talk like one, so I usually go with "By my stars and garters!"  "Upon my soul!"  "Oh dear!" and when things go personally FUBAR for him, my favorite, a Winnie the Pooh worthy "Oh bother . . ." 

Posted By Chuck on 22 Apr 2012 05:14 PM

The fact is I could not in good conscience have Doc say "By the Three Kennedys!"  I wrote it out once and then immediately deleted it.  If I have the companions come out of a redoubt in Massachussetts and they find themselves captured by a Kennedy cult who dress Krysty up like Jackie-O and strap Ryan into the backseat of a remote controlled convertible Cadillac rolling towards a grassy knoll while the ville inhabitants cheer wildly in vintage "Mad Men" garb and JB cries out to an unlistening Deathlands that "The lone gunman theory is ballistically impossible!"  Sure, the LBJanite High Priest can intone "By The Three Kennedys . . . " as he takes off the parking break.  No problem.  (Not a bad idea for a book . . .) 

Doc saying it?  It makes no sense, and worse it's awkward and clearly contrived.  Since Doc is a living antique, when I write him I have him talk like one, so I usually go with "By my stars and garters!"  "Upon my soul!"  "Oh dear!" and when things go personally FUBAR for him, my favorite, a Winnie the Pooh worthy "Oh bother . . ." 

If you plan to remove all the contrivances from DL, you are in for a long dark night of the soul.

Personally, I always found these stupidities kind of endearing, like caring for a befuddled old auntie.

Posted By Chuck on 22 Apr 2012 05:14 PM

Doc saying it?  It makes no sense, and worse it's awkward and clearly contrived.  

That's why I had Lakesh refer to it in "Omega Path" as "A particularly vacuous expletive".

However, Terry Collins did come up with a halfway acceptable rationale for the phrase in "Dark Emblem."

Nope, no long dark tea time of the soul.  Just a tweak here and there.  I did Blood Harvest on a lark and it was a kick in the pants to write.  So was Hell Road Warriors.  We debate good and bad canon, but I personally believe that post apocalyptic fun is fun, and the fun potential in DL has barely been scratched.

Posted By Chuck on 22 Apr 2012 09:02 PM

Nope, no long dark tea time of the soul.  Just a tweak here and there.  I did Blood Harvest on a lark and it was a kick in the pants to write.  So was Hell Road Warriors.  We debate good and bad canon, but I personally believe that post apocalyptic fun is fun, and the fun potential in DL has barely been scratched.

Chuck,
I agree that writing DL is a lot more fun than writing Bolans because of the latitude it allows, but if I may, a suggestion based on a whole lot of water over the dam: if you enjoy writing in the post-apocalyptic genre, then do your own series, and do it ASAP. (That is, if you aren't writing it already. Insert winky face.) If you are as good as the posters here say, and I have no reason to doubt them, you deserve to step out from under the shadow of a long-dead Brit , a committee of Canadian bureaucrats, and a stable of ghosts who, from what the posters say, seem to not give a good goddamn about their product. (Either that, or the other ghosts have a firm grasp of the realities of the situation: do as little as you can to still get paid.)

To put it another way, if you can't help but write good books, you are wasted at GE. You need to publish books that you get royalties for; you need to build a backlist of original stuff. Writing for GE is like target shooting with blanks. It sounds good, but in the end it's all for nought.

AP

Now THAT's a punch in the GE gut!

Although they must deserve it, I for one am sooo glad that Chuck is serious in his work for DL.

I agree with AP, though. Would love to see both you fantastic writers, Chuck and AP, come out with their own creations in the sci-fi/action/adventure genre.

I would most certainly pay for each and every one of them.

Posted By Maximus on 22 Apr 2012 09:55 PM

Now THAT's a punch in the GE gut!

 

Much better.

Your interest in my work outside of DL is most pleasant to read.

Seconded. I was just thinking earlier today that I figured out why Pollotta's book are such crap - he gets paid regardless, so why bother putting forth the effort? I guess if you don't have any pride in your work and are just looking for a paycheck, that's the way to go, but still...

Re: the Three Kennedys thing: I was going to mention the book Doc was reading, but I forgot that that didn't appear until Dark Emblem. Doc never actually said "By the Three Kennedys!" in PtH (he said "Upon my soul!" once, and uses that one often). So much of what LJ wrote is a total mystery (and so much more makes little to no sense). Still, it's hard to go against 25 years of established "canon", even if you want to try to make sense of things. You'd be better off going the route Mark Ellis did and just write a new series.

Posted By Jax2 on 23 Apr 2012 01:01 PM
When Eva Kovacs was the DL editor, she made an effort to turn DL into a legitimate SF series taking place in a legitimate SF universe with its own rules and history that at least leaned in the direction of making sense and rising above the lowest common denominator.

Once she was ousted, the editor who took over put a stop to all of that because it went against his belief that the main audience for DL was "Over the road truck drivers with fourth grade educations."

And the reason I put that statement in quotes is because it IS a quote. It's exactly what he said to me.

Definitely a disgusting thing to say. Elitist. Lazy. Personally revealing. But IMHO, and in my experience, both the blame and the praise should be watered down. Nobody at GE ever told me how I should write DL. What kinds of stories or linkages between other authors' books I should create. I was just handed a few of LJ's  DLs and told, "Here, do it."  No one at GE ever criticized how I wrote DL. If the editor after Eva put a stop to anything, I knew nothing about it. (Although he did cut my pay by ten percent.) As far as I could tell, the helm was unmanned while the GE supertanker plowed full speed ahead.

And I would never, have never written less than my best.

Posted By Jax2 on 23 Apr 2012 01:01 PM


Once she was ousted, the editor who took over put a stop to all of that because it went against his belief that the main audience for DL was "Over the road truck drivers with fourth grade educations."

And the reason I put that statement in quotes is because it IS a quote. It's exactly what he said to me.

I agree, that is an elitist and revealing statement to make, I am glad that the majority of author's who have worked on the series have done their best I am sure, as AP and Chuck and others have done despite the attitude the chief editor had.

Wow! What an eyeopener you authors are telling us!

What a bloody shame, too.

I disagree with that statement that new editor said. It depends on the writer.

AP's was always intelligent and as solid a sci-fi read as most sci-fi books I get into. I average between 2 to 3 books of mostly sci-fi and fantasy a week. Some James Rollins thrown in, as well as other fiction writers like Johnathan Maberry's Joe Ledger series.

And Chuck Roger's DL is well written and thought out, too.

But with all due respect to Polatta: Sorry sir, but you just seem to throw together a gaggle of characters with tons of wanton boring action scenes, and seem to see what happens. As a pretty astute reader, I can kinda tell he doesn't care, much like fellow fan Phantom wrote. Just a paycheck to him.

Posted By AP on 23 Apr 2012 12:40 AM

Much better.

Your interest in my work outside of DL is most pleasant to read.

 

On that note, are you writing anything at the moment?

I loved Cannibal Moon, so get cracking

Silentalbino, ya gotta be kidding me? REALLY?

I couldn't even finish that book. Did I give up too soon, then? 

Sorry, but I'm calling shananigans on that statement.

I just went back and read the reviews on that book. Besides your name, I never seen nor heard of those others.

Hmmm, where are they hiding out now...?

Posted By Maximus on 24 Apr 2012 09:39 PM

Sorry, but I'm calling shananigans on that statement.

 

I just went back and read the reviews on that book. Besides your name, I never seen nor heard of those others.

 

Hmmm, where are they hiding out now...?

Posted By silentalbino on 24 Apr 2012 10:44 PM

Posted By Maximus on 24 Apr 2012 09:39 PM

Sorry, but I'm calling shananigans on that statement.

 

I just went back and read the reviews on that book. Besides your name, I never seen nor heard of those others.

 

Hmmm, where are they hiding out now...?

I stand by my statement sir. That's because all of the other reviewers were my evil alias.