| 8/21/2009 8:55 PM |
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Posted By )3az )3aziah on 21 Aug 2009 02:04 PM
I have to agree with Alan, you would have thought Mildred of all people would have had at least a little interest in the many forms of mutie they have come across -especially as she has the codex to write !
According to Mark, Mildred had more than a little interest in muties. From Nightmare Passage page 87-88 "At one time or another, I've bored all of you with my theories about the muties running rampant over the face of Deathlands." "Yeah," Jak said, trying to work the tangles out of his shock of white hair. "Radiation not account for different types. Muties too varied and too numerous. So?" "So, my theories have been confirmed at least up to a point. Though I can't be positive, I'm fairly sure Overproject Excalibur was a subdivision of the Totality Concept. The purpose of this installation was devoted not just to creating mutatns, but to the birthing of the missing link, the biological bridge between predark and postdark man, superhuman designed to thrive in the world created by the nuclear Armageddon." (Later Ryan says, "It's a rad-blasted wasteland out there. Even a supermutie like Lord Kaa would have a problem surviving.") |
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APPublished Author  Veteran Member Posts:346  
| 8/21/2009 10:11 PM |
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Posted By Raboy on 21 Aug 2009 08:55 PM
Posted By )3az )3aziah on 21 Aug 2009 02:04 PM
I have to agree with Alan, you would have thought Mildred of all people would have had at least a little interest in the many forms of mutie they have come across -especially as she has the codex to write !
According to Mark, Mildred had more than a little interest in muties.
From Nightmare Passage page 87-88
"At one time or another, I've bored all of you with my theories about the muties running rampant over the face of Deathlands."
"Yeah," Jak said, trying to work the tangles out of his shock of white hair. "Radiation not account for different types. Muties too varied and too numerous. So?"
"So, my theories have been confirmed at least up to a point. Though I can't be positive, I'm fairly sure Overproject Excalibur was a subdivision of the Totality Concept. The purpose of this installation was devoted not just to creating mutatns, but to the birthing of the missing link, the biological bridge between predark and postdark man, superhuman designed to thrive in the world created by the nuclear Armageddon."
(Later Ryan says, "It's a rad-blasted wasteland out there. Even a supermutie like Lord Kaa would have a problem surviving.") Tip of the hat to Mark for mentioning my three-eyed, M60-toting, wannabe Charlemagne, but I was looking for actual, down-and-dirty dissections: Cut the spongy, noseless, sucker-fingered boogers wide open, root around inside, see what makes them tick. Sort of like CSI-DL, only with KABARs and machetes instead of scalpels and electric bonesaws. No surgical masks, either--wipe off the blood spray with the back of a hand, then wash off the hand in fine dirt. But, hey, that's just me. And obviously  , I have issues. |
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Scourge New Member Posts:65 
| 8/22/2009 3:47 AM |
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Sorry I have been away from the 'puter for a bit - time to scout for elk.
While the 6.8 SPC is an awesome round and a good stop gap for improving the lethality of the M16, I would rather have a 6.5 Grendel. I have an old Mini-30 (made before Ruger retooled the Mini 14/30 line) that is in 7.62x39. It is shite for range (I can hit a milk jug occasionally at 100 yards) even with a mongo scope that looks stupid on such a small rifle – it is an awesome rifle that will never jam or fail – based on the M1 carbine. If you want a rifle that will never jam and shoot no matter what - the Mini is for you if you do not expect too much accuracy. In my zombie fiction I arm my "hero" with a Mini-30 in 7.62x39 with the AK clip modification.
I want to send my Mini-30 to Accuracy Systems Inc for their 6.5 Grendel conversion with the heavy barrel. 6.8 SPC also available but I prefer the high Ballistic Coefficient (BC) of the 6.5 caliber bullets. I would love to see Ryan or JB armed with one of these rifles even if it was in 6.8 SPC. I have shot many 6.5 caliber weapons (6.5x55 Swede one of my favs) and the 140 gr Nosler Partitions have a higher BC than a .338 225 gr Sierra Soft Point. Because the 6.5s are long for caliber, they tend to have more bullet shank to mushroom back. Currently my bench has a Ruger M77 with a shot-out custom barrel (unk maker) in .300 Rem Ultra Mag that is going to become a 6.5 Rem Ultra Mag Ackley Improved (.300 necked down to 6.5 with a 40-degree shoulder) with a 28” .950 1-9.5 twist Shilen cryogenically-relieved barrel long throated for 140-145 gr Scenar bullets.
Now if I have not lost most of my readers (or your eyes are not totally glazed over) these stickies and other muties have always reminded me of shooting into ballistic gelatin. The round will penetrate and it will do a lot of tissue damage but ultimately will return to shape. I always imagined these creatures had skin like an octopus with some cartilage and bone underneath.
As I and others have stated – the main reason that the 9mm and 5.56 NATO rounds are shite for man-stoppers is because by the Geneva Convention we cannot use expanding bullets. However, Ryan and co are not restrained by such rules and are free to shoot whatever they find. Why the writers have them locate only mil surp, I do not know. While I am not a fan of the 9mm – when properly fed it is an effective weapon round. Feed it Hornady TAP, Black Talons (be-still my heart and wipe drool from face!!), Fang-Face (NyTrilium rounds – used by some of the three-letter agencies and air marshals), Hydro-Shocks, etc and the 9mm is very deadly.
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ScourgeNew Member Posts:65
| 8/22/2009 4:35 AM |
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OK, part 2 of my rant (catching up on past few days). BTW Dan yes I really like your posts and your writing and I am not blowing smoke up your hole – if it is shite I will call it as such. No lipstick on the pig here!!
I have always imagined that if the world ended up becoming like the DL or was over-run with zombies (one of the most commonly-stated reasons for owning an arsenal that could outfit a small-3rd world nation was “commies or zombies” – I still have my “commies or zombies” box) that I would fall back to my love of gun smithing and repair, create, and do my best to keep people armed.
Making black powder is not that difficult and there are a lot of black powder weapons running around (they are not Federally controlled – yet!). You would be surprised how much scrap lead is sitting in landfills and old homes. One of the biggest users of lead are the cable and power companies – if shite hit the rotary cooler – I would raid the nearest Verizon yard for all the lead I could steal.
I have studied under a farrier and am a fair black smith. I used to make several knifes and have poured my own bullets and rolled my own ammo since my grandfather started me back when I was about 5. Much like I have started my young daughters helping me on the loading bench.
Not sure if Dan based the Mac character on me (flattered if so BTW) but I am a white dude, a hair taller than 6’, brown hair and eyes, and weigh in (as of 3 months ago) at 234 at 7% body fat. I am a graduate of Ranger, Sniper, Sapper and various other schools (Air Born, Air Cav, Stryker, etc). I have served as a Ranger since 1982 until 1993 when I was recruited to work in another branch of the SF where I could wear street clothes or match the indigenous population that my team was imbedded with. I returned to the Rangers after I was blown up in 2006 on my 4th tour in Iraq. Since I could no longer serve in the capacity I was when hurt I challenged the Med Board and returned to active duty. Delta recruits heavily (Delta recruits you – you do not apply to Delta as Delta does not exist – there is no such thing as Delta) from the Rangers and we work together often. Delta also recruits from the other SF agencies from the other services such as the AF PJs, Force Recon, SEALS, etc.
Now the reason for the bio – as you can see I have a lot of knowledge that I could pass on to my descendants (my 7 YO daughter knows how to field strip, assemble, and FTF a M4 although it is a little too heavy for her to lift or carry). Why is JB the only one known descended from a military professional that posses military skills? I always disagreed with the huge vacuum of knowledge that suddenly disappeared in the DL. I would think that there would be more people with excellent skills because the stupid and foolish do not survive long. I saw this first hand in Afghanistan – the scholarly, book-toting, liberal thinker did not last long in the field unless he could adapt quickly – most could not – most died of lead poisoning. The useless die quickly – it is survival of the very fittest.
For those that have not had the pleasure of seeing the elephant – it is something that no one can prepare you for – and it affects everyone different. I took a bullet to my rear chicken plate (I did learn something in Somalia) my 2nd tour in Iraq. The round (most likely a 7.62x39) was properly fired from some distance or was from indiscriminate fire, went through my ruck, through the claymore on top of my ruck, nicked a full SAW ammo box, went through my Camel Back, my spare uniform and other kit and struck my rear SAPI plate with enough force to knock me off my feet, give me a hell of a head-ache with blurred vision and a bloody nose. It felt like someone hit me in the back with a 20 lb mallet!
Up next – sabots – the French bullet shoe.
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APPublished Author Veteran Member Posts:346
| 8/22/2009 10:38 AM |
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Posted By Scourge on 22 Aug 2009 04:35 AM
Making black powder is not that difficult and there are a lot of black powder weapons running around (they are not Federally controlled – yet!). You would be surprised how much scrap lead is sitting in landfills and old homes. One of the biggest users of lead are the cable and power companies – if shite hit the rotary cooler – I would raid the nearest Verizon yard for all the lead I could steal.
Scourge, Interesting posts. Sure blackpowder and lead are not difficult to make or find--but what about the PRIMERS for blackpowder weaps? Who is manufacturing primers in DL (and how????!) or finding and supplying them? Can a cased-cartridge primer work or be adapted to work in a BP weap? Or vice versa, can a BP weapon be adapted to use standard cartridge primers? Shouldn't the blackpowder-shooting hellscape-ites (including Doc) actually be using FLINTLOCKS? Or MATCHLOCKS? AP |
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One Eyed Vengeance (Leonidas) Basic Member Posts:337 
| 8/22/2009 1:55 PM |
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Yeah Mac,Dan's "Mac" is you.I am pretty sure he took a little hint from one of your other bud's on here to add you in(you being the 4th dude in our little "club"and all)Dan is way cool like that!Thanks for the wealth of info Mac.I always load my 9MM with Fedaral Hydra-Shok rds.I like my 9MM instead of the .45(even though I love my .45)ammo is way cheaper and I like the way less recoile for easier target reaquisition bro.Same reason I am partial to an M4 over am M14 I guess.
I know of the 6.5 grendal rd.,I just did not know of any weapon that was chambered in that caliber,thats why I mentioned 6.8 spc(cause of Barret)
Geez, now not only you ,but now your 7 yr old daughter is way more skilled in breaking down guns than me.lol!
I admit I am lazy,I know how to use and maintain my weapons but don't feildstrip them.I have never had a problem just locking the slide on my semi auto's and cleaning them that way.I follow the manual instructions and what I figured out.(no one ever showed me shite!)I have never had any fouling or a jam so I guess my "shortcut's" are ok???
Like I said,no formal training,just over 28 yrs using firearms and owning them.
My dad had me shooting his single action Ruger BlackHawk .357 on my uncles farm at age 8(w/.38's in it of course)
I tried to join the army mac back in 2002 but was 4f due to high blood pressure.I am no pro but do consider myself a fairly skilled amature.
Where were you hit the other time?Or was that Ak rd in the ass the only time you were shot?
Oh yeah,thanks for confirming what I kinda knew about Delta too. "Molon Labe"........"Come And Take Them"
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ScourgeNew Member Posts:65
| 8/22/2009 3:01 PM |
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No I took a round through the right hand between the 1st & 2nd knuckles in Somalia.
Your simplified cleaning should be good as long as you do not go shooting corrosive ammo and should maintain your weapon. It is more than most people do. As a gunsmith one of the more frequent requests is a complete cleaning - you would not believe how many hate to clean a weapon & refuse to clean the damn thing.
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ScourgeNew Member Posts:65
| 8/22/2009 5:47 PM |
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Actually AP you make a good point. You can stuff any modern cartridge with BP and shoot it. I load all my SASS rounds in modern cases with BP. The primers are not important to the BP – remember that BP is an explosive while modern gunpowder is a flammable. Back in the early days when the first primers (I will give the cliff notes here) were made they used mercury fulminate – a very hazardous and toxic compound that killed a lot of the early factory workers. It is not hard to make and other than a source of the thin brass and copper the average hobbyist could recreate those old primers. Of course this makes the rounds very corrosive to the weapon (a problem that many early BP suffered horrid throat erosion) especially if they are made of brass or low grade steel. Now when the DL are set is before the ridiculous shortage of primers we are experiencing today. So I always imagined that there were billions of primers stacked in military store piles – not to mention that there are several foreign manufactures such as Russia, China, S Korea, Philippines, Poland, Sweden, and Mexico that all export primers to the US. With a little metal work I have several BP in-line front-stuffed carbines that have their breech block modified to accept a .32 ACP round to use as a primer rather than a musket cap. There are a plethora of modern BP weapons that use a shotgun 209 primer – there are billons of those 209 primers lying around and they are easier to make than either pistol or rifle primers. Flintlocks are simple to make while matchlocks require some more serious metalwork. Doc’s main problem is finding the percussion caps for his Le Mat pistol. If he finds someone with some tools and enough skill he should get his old Le Mat converted with another cylinder that takes modern primers – I would use 209 shotgun primers. It would not be hard with a modern CAD CNC machine – but could be done carefully with a manual lathe and mill if someone had the skill and time. Finding the high-quality steel would be a major problem. I would imagine that the projects that spawned the redoubts would have stockpiled quality steel – which would be worth more than its weight in gold. I would use D2 tool steel or vanadium steel, but just about any high-carbon steel or even high speed steel with at least 18% tungsten, even type 304 or 316 stainless would work despite the aesthetics of putting a stainless cylinder in a BP weapon. My preference would be to use high-speed steel for the replacement cylinder in Doc’s Le Mat using 209 sized primers preferably Federal 209A or Magnum primers.
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One Eyed Vengeance (Leonidas)Basic Member Posts:337
| 8/22/2009 6:31 PM |
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Christ!I would have thought an AK rd would have blown your hand clean off?Do you have any clue if it was a 7.62x39?Probably no as I am guessing it passed clean through???Oh yeah,Maybe I should have paid more attention to Chemistry in highschool.
Cool,guess I won't be up shit creek when it all starts flying since my half ass cleaning works huh?
AP you are setting a dangerous precedance.Being the first author from DL to actually know what the hell he is talking about as far as firearms go. "Molon Labe"........"Come And Take Them"
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mikeclrBasic Member Posts:197 
| 8/22/2009 6:51 PM |
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Scourge,
Can you tell us what medals and citations you have been awarded? Sounds like you should have quite a few!
Also I'm curious...which Chalk were you assigned to during the Battle of Mogadishu?
"Courage is not a man with a gun in his hand. It's knowing you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." - Atticus Finch
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APPublished Author Veteran Member Posts:346
| 8/22/2009 7:27 PM |
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Excellent information, Scourge. Almost makes me wish I was still writing DLs. (Well, maybe not.) There's no BP in Slaughter Realms. Which if you haven't checked out recently, the site bears a second look. Ron has devised an awesome new e-reader and is in the process of uploading the first five chapters of the novel into the format. Looks just like a paperback book.
He and I nearly put our eyes out last week searching the net for just the right set of headlights for the graphic artist to pin on the Iroquois Ninja Princess--she swordfights topless for the first time in Chapter Four. (Pity the poor Vikings.)
Actually OEV, I don't know that much, but I know what I don't know. Which isn't the same thing, of course, but I've found that if I can frame something into a question, I can almost always find the answer.
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ScourgeNew Member Posts:65
| 8/22/2009 7:48 PM |
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The round that went through my hand was most likely a 5.56 either friendly fire or ricochet. Possible a 5.49x39 because it punched a small hole and fractured both knuckles.
I was in Chalk one and was part of the relief and retrieval group. My company was not selected for the initial assault but we got to try to rescue our brothers. I was still a Specialist then – a Ranger with the 10th Mountain.
I have my EIB, CAB, Purple Heart (3rd award), Bronze Star with V, GWOT, Kuwaiti Liberation Medal, Master Jump Wings, and a few other pieces of chest candy that means I was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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| 8/23/2009 2:54 AM |
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Are groups still down or is it just me?
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Ron MilesWebsite Owner  Commander In Chief Posts:864 
| 8/23/2009 3:59 AM |
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There is something wrong with the template. I have been busy with other things, but I will look at it before the weekend is over.
"Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
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One Eyed Vengeance (Leonidas)Basic Member Posts:337
| 8/23/2009 3:25 PM |
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Sounds like an Ak 74 rd to me Mac?(5x45MM???)
Hope the groups come back online when Ron has the time,I think we are annoying some people w/our gun talk (Lord knows why?) "Molon Labe"........"Come And Take Them"
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Ron MilesWebsite Owner Commander In Chief Posts:864
| 8/23/2009 3:28 PM |
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Posted By One Eyed Vengance(Leonidas) on 23 Aug 2009 03:25 PM
Hope the groups come back online when Ron has the time,I think we are annoying some people w/our gun talk (Lord knows why?)
The groups should be working just fine now. I see them, don't you? BTW - I am not the least bit interested in guns. Never have been, probably never will be. Barely even know the difference between a rifle and a pistol. Even so, I have been reading and enjoying Deathlands for a dozen years or more. My point is, there are any number of reasons to be into Deathlands / Outlanders that have nothing to do with guns. You love guns, that's cool, knock yourself out, doesn't bother me a bit. But I am living proof that it is entirely possible to like the series and not care in the least about the boomsticks the characters carry around. "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
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One Eyed Vengeance (Leonidas)Basic Member Posts:337
| 8/23/2009 3:38 PM |
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I could not agree more Ron.I read DeathLands because of the characters and the stories,but yeah,I do love firearms.
My post was not meant as a criticism of you or anyone because you are not into guns though,for the record.
"Molon Labe"........"Come And Take Them"
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mikeclrBasic Member Posts:197
| 8/23/2009 6:30 PM |
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I can't/don't even see the correlation between being a DL reader/fan and being a firearms enthusiast/ hobbyist.
DL has probably the least realistic, most improbable, and outright ridiculous depictions of firearms usage of any pulp series I have ever read.
(Which incidentally is part of the overall flavor for me personally.)
There are literally hundreds, if not thousands of forums, newsgroups, and websites dedicated to intense conversations regarding weapons and firearms that would be more practical in a sense regarding such rather than one dedicated to an outlandish pulp paperback franchise.
Even series like Carrier, Seal Team Seven, Rogue Warrior, Stony Man, The Survivalist, and especially Dale Brown, Vince Flynn or Tom Clancy, contain far more practical and realistic depictions of firearms usage and technology.
"Courage is not a man with a gun in his hand. It's knowing you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." - Atticus Finch
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One Eyed Vengeance (Leonidas)Basic Member Posts:337
| 8/23/2009 7:19 PM |
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You are entitled to your opinion Mike,even if I disagree completely.(to some of what you say)
DeathLands is a very much a mens action/sci/fi series that does appeal to MEN WHO USE/LOVE/OWN GUN'S,as well as others who don't.I in no way implied that there was a correlation as you say(I do not know why?) in my previous post.
All I said was that I like DeathLands,I mainly read for the characters,and yes,forgive me,but I am a firearms lover as well.
Is that ok with you man?
As far as you saying we should go somewhere else to talk about guns.
That is uncalled for man.Why should I not be able to discuss firearms(the ones in DL) with my friends right here?
Last time I checked this was still America and not China. "Molon Labe"........"Come And Take Them"
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Ron MilesWebsite Owner Commander In Chief Posts:864
| 8/23/2009 7:38 PM |
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Posted By One Eyed Vengance(Leonidas) on 23 Aug 2009 07:19 PM
Last time I checked this was still America and not China.
Point in fact, this is neither America nor China, it is cyberspace. More specifically, it is MY little corner of cyberspace, that I built from the ground up and maintain for no other reason than that I enjoy it. A large number of the members here live in the US, but a great many others come from all across the globe. Freedom of speech means that you have the right (in America) to stand up on your soapbox in any public place and speak your mind without being censored by the government. This is not a public place. It is a privately owned and operated website. While I heartily welcome you to this website, please realize that if you want to speak your mind completely uncensored you are more than welcome to get your own website and run it any way you like. While you are here, I expect you to respect my rules. The simple truth is that while gun talk obviously interests you greatly (which is fine!), for other people it is not only not interesting but it is an active turn off. My goal is to make this website welcoming to a broad spectrum of readers. Allowing every thread to turn into a gun discussion is not conducive to that goal. I am not telling you not to talk about guns. But I am asking you to not get all defensive whenever someone says they just aren't interested in guns. You seem to be taking it as a personal attack, which it is not. "Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
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