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Last Post 7/6/2009 12:50 AM by Another One Eyed Chiller

Some inconsistencies with a couple of Deathlands books!!

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Traveller 777

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6/20/2009 7:00 PM
It has been a while since I have made a post, but lately something has been bothering me about certain books in the Deathlands series. Has anyone else noticed that not all storylines in each book follows consistency? One of the many plot lines and/or rules is that the Last Destination button or LD button in the Gate Ways, has only a 30 minute window and is mention all time in many books, as well as not being able to control the Gate Ways to where the group would like to go. One book in particular that I see an inconsistency is Chill Factor. Ryan manages to follow Dean and Zimyanin to the far north days after they left. How did he know where or which Gate Way address to use and how did they get back? Two other books that I think I noticed similar inconsistencies were Breakthrough and Cannibal Moon in how the group was able to choose which destination they wanted to go. All three of these books are some of my favourites. If there is something that I have missed or misinterpreted please let me know and correct me if I am wrong. Thanks.

AP
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6/21/2009 11:57 AM
Posted By Traveller 777 on 20 Jun 2009 07:00 PM Two other books that I think I noticed similar inconsistencies were Breakthrough and Cannibal Moon in how the group was able to choose which destination they wanted to go. All three of these books are some of my favourites. If there is something that I have missed or misinterpreted please let me know and correct me if I am wrong. Thanks. I haven’t looked but there probably are inconsistencies. Breakthrough was written a decade ago. As I’ve said on this site numerous times, GE doesn’t employ freelance Developmental Editors to check for things like that. So shit happens. All the time. Surely that can’t come as a big surprise if you’re familiar with the series. I’ve got to say the “LD button” (the companions’ only control over the mat-trans machinery) is one of my least favorite bits of the DL canon. That the companions don’t fully understand the tech is fine, but that they can’t seem to manipulate its operation to suit their ends after all this time (and they’re okay with that) is an awkward complicating factor that makes them seem like effing dimwits. I’m not talking about the way-too convenient Wyeth Codex here—I’m talking about their figuring out some simple, direct way of repeating jumps they’ve already made, and thereby assembling their own transport map. (If a destination code is going into the mat-trans computer, all they have to do is find a way to read it—and then have the brains to write it down.) If they never know where they’re going when they jump, story lines are limited to accidental encounters with redoubts and variations on the perverted baron theme. What worked for a handful of sequential books becomes an albatross after 30. I realize I’m looking at this from a different point of view than a reader, but working around limitations that are memorable BUT MAKE NO SENSE was one of the most difficult and frustrating parts of writing DLs.

Jax2
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6/21/2009 12:31 PM
Posted By AP on 21 Jun 2009 11:57 AM I’m not talking about the way-too convenient Wyeth Codex here—I’m talking about their figuring out some simple, direct way of repeating jumps they’ve already made, and thereby assembling their own transport map. The Wyeth Codex, convenient or otherwise had absolutely nothing to do with the operation of the the mat-trans units. It was, to quote myself from Exile to Hell, a journal that "contained recollections of adventures and wanderings...(it) dealt in the main with Dr. Wyeth's observations, speculations and theories about the environmental conditions of postnukecaust America. However, Mildred did discover a CD in Dark Emblem that contained the operation key and destination codes of the mat-trans network...she just had to decrypt it. As far as I know, that CD was never referred to again.

Daniel

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6/21/2009 12:32 PM
Posted By AP on 21 Jun 2009 11:57 AM I’m not talking about the way-too convenient Wyeth Codex here— The Wyeth Codex wasn't about the mat-trans units.

Daniel

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6/21/2009 12:34 PM
Oops! You beat me to that one!

AP
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6/21/2009 1:00 PM
Posted By Jax2 on 21 Jun 2009 12:31 PM Posted By AP on 21 Jun 2009 11:57 AM I’m not talking about the way-too convenient Wyeth Codex here—I’m talking about their figuring out some simple, direct way of repeating jumps they’ve already made, and thereby assembling their own transport map. The Wyeth Codex, convenient or otherwise had absolutely nothing to do with the operation of the the mat-trans units. It was, to quote myself from Exile to Hell, a journal that "contained recollections of adventures and wanderings...(it) dealt in the main with Dr. Wyeth's observations, speculations and theories about the environmental conditions of postnukecaust America. However, Mildred did discover a CD in Dark Emblem that contained the operation key and destination codes of the mat-trans network...she just had to decrypt it. As far as I know, that CD was never referred to again. Mark, Sorry if I got the name wrong, but the Dark Emblem CD is what I was talking about. The one supposedly with the transport codes on it. ("codes," "Codex"? That's what confused me--never having read ETH I always thought that's what it referred to. Now I know different, thanks.) And by that transport code CD being "too convenient" I meant that it didn't require the companions thinking through and solving their predicament on their own, based on the weight of their experience. Something that would have made them seem resourceful and ingenious ... Wait a minute. Am I thinking of some other series?

Jax2
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6/21/2009 2:59 PM
Posted By AP on 21 Jun 2009 01:00 PM Something that would have made them seem resourceful and ingenious ... Wait a minute. Am I thinking of some other series? Outlanders?

AP
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6/21/2009 3:44 PM
Posted By Jax2 on 21 Jun 2009 02:59 PM Posted By AP on 21 Jun 2009 01:00 PM Something that would have made them seem resourceful and ingenious ... Wait a minute. Am I thinking of some other series? Outlanders? I must be turning psychic: I knew you were going to say that.

The Phantom

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Posts:219

6/21/2009 7:16 PM
Posted By Jax2 on 21 Jun 2009 12:31 PM However, Mildred did discover a CD in Dark Emblem that contained the operation key and destination codes of the mat-trans network...she just had to decrypt it. As far as I know, that CD was never referred to again. I always thought that it was a missed opportunity to include in a storyline in a DL book. Like Mildred finds a computer in a redoubt she thinks can extract the information from the disk. Sec men or muties or whatever break in and destroy the room, make off with the disk, or destroy the disk altogether. Would have made a good epilogue, having the group looking down and seeing the shattered pieces of the disk all over the floor. Would have been better than GE have the writers evidently ignore that tidbit from Dark Emblem anyway.

Cerberus Man

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Posts:144

6/22/2009 11:38 AM
I always thought the interphaser in OL was more believable than the mat-trans units, which always came off as low-rent imitations of Star Trek's transporters. "It's better to have a blaster and not need it than to need it and--" "Oh, spare me," Brigid said irritably. (Kane and Brigid Baptiste from Armageddon Axis)

)3az )3aziah
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6/22/2009 3:28 PM
Posted By Cerberus Man on 22 Jun 2009 11:38 AM I always thought the interphaser in OL was more believable than the mat-trans units, which always came off as low-rent imitations of Star Trek's transporters. I believe it was based more on the system used in the 1958 movie "The Fly". But did you believe the Mat-Trans before the advent of the interphaser ? =============================== Billy Fish: He wants to know if we are gods. Peachy Carnehan: Not gods - Englishmen. The next best thing. Please check out my FLICKR photos

Another One Eyed Chiller

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6/22/2009 7:27 PM
Cerberus man, Everyone knows you hate Death Lands and LOOOOOOOOOOve Outlanders,so do us all a favor and stay over there? Oh yeah,IT'S ALL SCIENCE FICTION!!! So believability about the mat trans vs.Outlanders interphaser is a moot point. P.S. Did it ever occur to you that is is not a competition between Outlanders and Death Lands?Alot of us read both!

Raboy

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Posts:83

6/22/2009 11:21 PM
Funny thing--I started with DL from the beginning, back in 1986 when I was 16...I used to LOOOOOOOOve it. But the interphaser is still more believable than the mat-trans. No vomiting for one thing, so its even cleaner. PS Did it ever occur to you that people can discuss parts of both Outlanders and DL and you don't have to get all defensive and on the muscle about it?

dean_cawdor1977

New Member
Posts:29

6/22/2009 11:37 PM
I may have this all as backwards and upside down, the CD being mentioned above, is that the CD mentioned a couple times through out Hellbenders? The one Dean thinks could get decoded with the help of the young hellbender who is more into Tech then chilling revenge? If so it hasn't been forgotten for long, I know it probably will sink into the dark depths of the GE shadow, the one that consumes all great ideas and lets them rust in purgatory.. You have to wonder if enough fans of DL wrote into GE with well worded complaints and the same suggestions.. would a voice be heard?? Something to think about I guess as we ponder the mind boggling journeys of our favorite heros p.s. there should be a Redoubt in Cucamonga... why.. WHY NOT!! LOL

Jax2
Published Author

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Posts:269

6/23/2009 10:36 AM
Posted By Raboy on 22 Jun 2009 11:21 PM Did it ever occur to you that people can discuss parts of both Outlanders and DL and you don't have to get all defensive and on the muscle about it? Especially when OL was brought into this thread by a DL writer. I find the interphaser more believable than the mat-trans myself...but not by much. I came up with it so OL wouldn't be duplicating the standard DL openings of waking up, looking around in a strange place and then puking. I don't find much satisfaction in writing about puke, regardless of how dramatic it might seem to some folks. The interphaser came about because the whole redoubt formula was incredibly limiting...not to mention that if I came up with a host of new redoubts for Kane and Crew to explore and added them to those in DL, then it would seem like the crust of the Earth would collapse beneath their collective weight. Whether the mat-trans was inspired more by The Fly or by Star Trek's transporter, the whole set-up was scientifically specious. For science-fiction to actually be science-fiction, it has to have some real science in it...otherwise it's fantasy, like Lord of the Rings. There's nothing remotely moot about it. Laurence's grasp of theoretical physics was about on par with his grasp of biology and genetics--to call it "feeble" is to be charitable. I didn't want to repeat his mat-trans/puke/explore the redoubt formula (even in my own DL novels), although I did posit an "explanation" of how the damn things came about and how they worked. The interphaser operated differently than the mat-trans, although the basic principle was the same--tapping into the quantum stream. Whereas as the mat-trans did the old tried and true of reducing matter to energy, beaming it to another location and then reassembling it, the interphaser opened localized wormholes over geomagnetic vortex points--the intersections of ley lines, earth energies. It was more like opening a conduit between point A to point B and the travelers just stepped from one end of the conduit to the other--far closer to Jack Kirby's "Boom Tubes" than a teleportation machine. For the times when the Cerberus Crew couldn't find a convenient vortex point in a place they needed to be, they climbed into a Manta ship and just flew there. Both methods streamlined the storytelling and greatly diminished the puke potential.

AP
Published Author

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Posts:346

6/23/2009 11:20 AM
I always thought that if LJ had expanded the mat-trans side effect from just puking to puking, shitting, and pissing, the result would have been much more CINEMATIC. It certainly would have forced “a change of clothes” and perhaps even the occasional bath.

Jax2
Published Author

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Posts:269

6/23/2009 1:53 PM
ROTFLMAO!! Maybe GE was afraid openings like could be interpreted as what the rest of the book might be like. Oh, God... My face hurts.

AP
Published Author

Veteran Member
Posts:346

6/23/2009 2:53 PM
In fairness I need to add that I was never one to dwell on hygiene or wardrobe issues in my DLs, even though I was at times disturbed by the implications of what I was writing. Clearly, the blame for some of the aroma is mine. I take full responsibility for it.

Cerberus Man

Basic Member
Posts:144

6/23/2009 5:23 PM
Posted By )3az )3aziah on 22 Jun 2009 03:28 PM I believe it was based more on the system used in the 1958 movie "The Fly". But did you believe the Mat-Trans before the advent of the interphaser ? Not really. I had read a couple of Outlanders books before my then-roommate informed me that the mat-trans was from the DL series. Mark came up with an okay-seeming scientific explanation for how the mat-trans units operated, but I liked the interphaser much better. It was portable for one thing and for another, when the Cerberus Crew used it, they didn't have to wander aimlessly around an underground installation for a couple of chapters, trying to figure out where they were. With the interphaser, the Cerberus Crew knew exactly where they were going. And they didn't puke when they got there, either. "It's better to have a blaster and not need it than to need it and--" "Oh, spare me," Brigid said irritably. (Kane and Brigid Baptiste from Armageddon Axis)

Another One Eyed Chiller

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Posts:76

6/23/2009 9:41 PM
First,you are ripping on a dead mans writing.Very mature. And yes,It Is A MOOT POINT because the Technology you mention that makes the Interphaser work(theoretically) is every bit as far fetched as Mat Trans Tech,considering neither is possible or even within centuries of existing.So you might as well be coming up with an interphaser to help Frodo get to Mt. Doom to destroy that ring as you compare Laurence James work to Fantasy while yours is based on Jack Kirbys Boom Tube?(a freakin' D.C. Comic) In closing you and alot of other authors all keep taking cheap shots at Laurence(a dead man)James,who made Death Lands the hit series it is. Why is that I wonder?Jealousy??? Oh yeah,as a reader I find all kinds of faults with Laurence james writing,such as Ryan using a Sig P226 with a built in silencer,even though I own sigs and know that they(nor any gun existing)has such a feature,His having Trader's "Battered Armalite"rifle fire a 9mm pistol round instead of a 5.56mm intermediate round was stupid.Never ever having anyone actualy chamber a round on their weapons pissed me off too.But,having said all that,I would rather read anything written by Laurence James)puke/redoubt exploring/dirty clothes and all,than be disapointed by the shortcommings of almost everyone of you guy's who don't make a pimple on L.J.'s ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Chris,Death Lands fan since the beginning/

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