i think if all the readers did letters or emails to gold eagle they would do a game. we shuld stat a facebook potition to shew them how many of us wnat a gme then they wuld have to do it.

Harry -

Again, I can't recommend any more strongly that you use Firefox. It will make your posts a lot easier to read.

As for sending letters and emails to GE about a Deathlands Game, no matter how many people participate I would have to say that a snowball would have a better chance of lasting an hour in hades than GE ever forking out the capital to spearhead such an endeavor.

Before you go off on a rant and tell me that I'm full of shit and that I have no idea what I'm talking about, allow the facts to speak for themselves.

GE has ZERO respect for the readers of any of their series. How can this be? First, a revolving door of writers. Series that have excellent continuity will not only attract but keep readers. The only continuity you will find in Deathlands is from the first 33 written by Laurence James, and the books that were written by certain authors such as Alan. Way back when Mark started working for the company, he and several of the authors at the time tried to keep some continuity in the series.

It didn't last.

Secondly, the quality of the authors. Some stand out and are excellent writers, while others turn out crap that I wouldn't use to wipe my hind quarters with. Go through the threads and see which authors are liked and which are flat out despised. Alan is one of the former.

Third, they don't even have editors. This has been proven time and again with mistakes that are allowed to show up in the books. The so called editors say that they edit a book, collect their pay, and let it go to press. Look at all the crap that has gotten through over the years. Again, just go through the threads to see examples. On a related note, they even went as far as using almost the exact same novel with a few name changes and other minor changes for their Stony Man series.

If all these examples don't prove to you that GE has ZERO respect for the readership and thinks that most of the readers are nothing more than semi-literate, knuckle dragging, inbred hillbillies, then I don't know what will convince you of that fact.

At it doesn't just include the readership. Talk to Alan, Mark or some of the other authors who frequent this forum. Ask them about flat out lies they've been told, breaches of contract, that sort of thing. As them about how instead of getting more for their work, they're paid LESS.

Why not ask GE about advertising. How with the exception of Rogue Angel, they didn't bother promoting their other books. Ask them why they would send SECRETARIES to conventions to promote books instead of investing a little capital to send the actual authors, the CREATORS of the series to these conventions.

You might ask where I got this information. I read the posts here and I talk to at least one of the authors, Mark Ellis. He doesn't hide the facts and they've been as plain as day to someone who has been part of the forum for as long as I have.

Also, when you consider that Graphic Audio has dropped all GE titles except Deathlands, you have to wonder why.

So, that should explain to you the futility of starting a letter and email campaign asking GE to consider a Deathlands game.

They'll either ignore it, or laugh at the 'idiot fans' and circulate the emails and letters and continue the never ending cycle of disrespect towards the followers of the series.

Chris

Chris,

I can't agree more with all you have to say here.

Jim

Screw Firefox it sucks, so does IE.. I recommend using Maxthon.. It uses the native IE core but bends it over and f... it in the ass and the warped child smokes both IE and Firefox Haha..

Seriously though, I cant stand Firefox or IE.. they both suck ass.. I hate them both.. IE well.. its IE and Firefox doesn't follow standards, plus I hate how it loads pages.. especially images.. Maxthon is the way to go, that or Avant.. but havent tried Avant in a few years.. For me anyway.. but to each his own.

Posted By ShadowTek on 28 Oct 2011 09:51 PM
.. but to each his own.

So say we all.

Jim

Wow...after yrs of buyin and readin DL books it takes Chris's post to open my eyes.I was told a while back how GE was and I was like "naw" and they was like "yaw".Damn I been all about DLs for yrs and it has shown in my post be it good or bad.But I will not have anyone look down on me and see me as a "idiot".I'll never buy another GE book...................

Diablo -

The fact that you don't want to support GE is admirable.

BUT -

Honestly, if you enjoy the books, then continue to read and buy them.

I know, it sounds like I'm contradicting myself but I simply wanted to point out the facts of what is going on behind the scenes at GE.

Again, if you enjoy it, why stop? There is little enough pleasure available in this world sometimes, and why deny yourself something that you gain enjoyment from?

Of course if you happen to agree about the quality of the novels, then I can understand your wanting to stop buying. Crap is crap, no matter how much you try to pretty it up.

People have to remember, I did, at one time, love the series. Back when it was still being written by Laurence James. I continued to enjoy it when they brought on a small cadre of writers who actually worked together to maintain continuity in the series.

But that didn't last.

Once Pollotta started writing for it however, I found his work (and his personality, but that's another story) to be reprehensible.

As a result, I stopped reading the novels.

But I won't lie, I have been very tempted to download the audio versions of the novels that Alan wrote, they seem to be the best received of all the fill in authors who have come since that small cadre tried to continue with a cohesive time line and continuity.

Anyhow, that's about it.

Chris

Chris, you should also check out Bloodlines by Chuck Rogers. It's a real standout, and I have high hopes for his upcoming Hell Road Warriors.

And of course, there is always the chance that we will see new non-DL books from Alan in the future. He may have quit writing for GE, but he hasn't quit writing.

Blood Harvest, Ron. And I'm sure Chris would enjoy the Canadian content in Hell Road Warriors, seeing as how it's about the Diefenbunkers, Canada's own redoubts.

I wasn't aware that GA had dropped all GE books but Deathlands, but I guess that does make sense with all the new titles Ive been seeing from them.

I've heard that many of the books suck, but I will be honest.. so far I have 0-47 and except for 44-45 (which I haven't heard yet), the books do seem to pickup where the last left off (though there was one book that seemed out of order and one book that did start in the middle of nowhere) and a few books seem to build up to the baronies trilogy. Sure theres a drop off but so far the books are not "Bad" but maybe that will (I'm guessing from all I hearing) change. This also may be because I'm listening to the GA versions and there just good at what they do, and maybe making them seem better then they actually are, but I haven't heard any books yet that I hated.

Posted By Wordsmith-reprise on 05 Nov 2011 06:59 AM
Blood Harvest, Ron. And I'm sure Chris would enjoy the Canadian content in Hell Road Warriors, seeing as how it's about the Diefenbunkers, Canada's own redoubts.

Ah, yes, right, Bloodlines is totally different. I get my blood books all confused. Blood Harvest.

I almost typed "Hell Road Truckers" as the other book title, but I think that's a crappy reality tv show.

Chris: I just avoid reading Pollotta's books. The others aren't all that bad, really, though they do vary widely in quality.

Shadowtek: The quality of the books doesn't start to drop off until after #50 or so. Pollotta wrote the Baronies Trilogy (in which he introduces a lot of the tropes that he's been reusing to this day) and quite a few books after that, along with Andy Boot - between them, they have 16 of the next 20 titles. In fact, except for AP and a couple one-off authors, we don't see any variety at all until 2009's Alpha Wave (Rik Hoskin).

As far as GE, here's another anecdotal example. I don't know if you folks are familiar with the Destroyer series, but it was produced by GE for almost 30 years, until Warren Sapir (who has the rights to the series) got tired of dealing with them and left, going over to Tor. Unfortunately, Tor turned out to be even worse - he put out three books for them and retired completely. A shame, too, because I loved those books.

Posted By Kerrick on 06 Nov 2011 09:41 AM
As far as GE, here's another anecdotal example. I don't know if you folks are familiar with the Destroyer series, but it was produced by GE for almost 30 years, until Warren Sapir (who has the rights to the series) got tired of dealing with them and left, going over to Tor. Unfortunately, Tor turned out to be even worse - he put out three books for them and retired completely. A shame, too, because I loved those books.

Uh...no. Sorry. You're off by about three decades, two different men and
four different publishers.

The Destroyer began in 1971 at Pinnacle, home of Don Pendleton's Executioner and Godknowshowmany other paperback vigilante series--including The Destroyer.

The Destroyer was the creation of Warren Murphy and Dick Sapir.

After a series of suits and countersuits involving Pinnacle in the 70s, Harlequin locked in the rights to the Executioner in 1980, but Murphy and Sapir took The Destroyer to NAL/Signet.

There, much like what was currently being done with the Bolan books at Gold Eagle, most of The Destroyer series was farmed out to various freelance writers.

The most prolific and popular of these writers was Will Murray. He essentially established the tone and overall feel of the series for nearly a decade. During this decade Dick Sapir died of a heart attack.

In 1993, after NAL began cutting back on its midlist books, The Destroyer and Will came to Gold Eagle--and that's where most of the problems you mention began.

The problems became frequent and even capricious...Will ended up so disgusted with the-then executive editor, he quit the series in 1997.
His one-word description of the relationship was "toxic."

It was turned over briefly to two or three freelancers before Jim Mullaney--a writer Will mentored and recommended--took over.

It didn't take long before Mullaney got to experience first-hand the same toxic relationship with GE as Will...and in disgust, he quit too.

The series then became the purview of another writer whose name I've forgotten. Presumably, before he too could quit in disgust, it came time for Warren Murphy to renew the Destroyer contract with GE.

This time, probably disgusted with all the disgust, he demurred and the series moved over to Tor-- again written by Mullaney, where a handful of books were published under the NEW Destroyer banner.

The disappearance of The Destroyer left a hole in the GE schedule, which most likely is one reason for Rogue Angel, Room 59 and even the reprints of the short-lived Jake Strait books.

Reviewing the above, it does seem like a silly mess--but then again...when you distill it all down to the basics, the core reason I'm not writing Outlanders at the moment is because I asked the then-executive editor a couple of questions about bookkeeping.

Posted By Jax2 on 06 Nov 2011 11:47 AM


The series then became the purview of another writer whose name I've forgotten. Presumably, before he too could quit in disgust, it came time for Warren Murphy to renew the Destroyer contract with GE.

Tim Somheil wrote those last dozen Destroyers for GE. These came after a couple of Mike Newton books they had laying around.

The missing credit to Newton on those two were a lame attempt on GE's part to avoid readers ignoring them after the flack GE got from the first two Newton titles earlier in the series.

Posted By Jax2 on 06 Nov 2011 11:47 AM

Posted By Kerrick on 06 Nov 2011 09:41 AM
As far as GE, here's another anecdotal example. I don't know if you folks are familiar with the Destroyer series, but it was produced by GE for almost 30 years, until Warren Sapir (who has the rights to the series) got tired of dealing with them and left, going over to Tor. Unfortunately, Tor turned out to be even worse - he put out three books for them and retired completely. A shame, too, because I loved those books.

Uh...no. Sorry. You're off by about three decades, two different men and
four different publishers.

I was close.  I had the essential bits right, at least. I didn't know that Murray had taken over, though I did know they had a variety of ghost writers for awhile in the mid-late 90s. Mullaney, OTOH, was very different from Sapir. When Sapir took over and went to Tor, he explained things in the first book - he didn't like how things had been going, but he liked Mullaney, so he retconned the last dozen or so books. That's really what killed the series for me - I liked Sarah Slate, and I didn't like Mullaney's writing - but it was all a moot point, since they only did a few more books.

I had the essential bits right, at least. I didn't know that Murray had taken over, though I did know they had a variety of ghost writers for awhile in the mid-late 90s. Mullaney, OTOH, was very different from Sapir.

Well, actually...you keep confusing the very much alive Warren Murphy with the late Dick Sapir, who passed away in the late 1980s.

What you did have right was that after a decade-plus, continued editorial shenanigans drove Warren Murphy to fly from the Gold Eagle nest and essentially consign the last couple of years worth of GE books to the "Never Happened" bin...

An attitude and practice I am in total sympathy with.

this is all realy interesting but what has it got to do with rol play games

Harry,

Its called "going off at a tangent", ( ihttp://www.usingenglish.c...ff+on+a+tangent.html -just in case you ask ) if you are bothered by it then just skip past the posts you don't like until one you do appears. Things like this used to happen a lot in the old days and made for some really interesting reading.

Carry on folks, I for one am fascinated by all this history.

Jim

ur ok Harry.....some times they do this.but the good thing is we fans get to follow along.I though GE looked down on me not long ago.but now i hear GE is backin only DLs books.Right?..point is....who ever writes for DLs is ok by me..

yerah ok? this is old now are we still goin to talk about it again