| 2/24/2009 6:35 PM |
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I think Mark explained it quite clearly with the advent of Casements. Not the same Universe No Way No How |
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| 2/24/2009 7:09 PM |
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I definately remember Mark posting here that Outlanders and DL were in the same universe...he posted it more than once.
The parallel casements were only in the Lost Earth Saga trilogy...unless you want to count Milan's fill-in crap as taking place in a parallel casement.
But you know what--Mark has a perfectly good forum on his own site--we can always go to the Main Man and ask him!
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APPublished Author  Veteran Member Posts:346  
| 3/3/2009 6:38 PM |
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[QUOTE] DeathlandsLuke wrote
Hello everyone. Long time reader, first time poster.
I think Plague Lords is moving things in the right direction. The other glimpses of the world have been brief. I still feel that Deathlands itself (North America) still can tell some interesting stories. The quality of goods and resources in Deathlands is vanishing, and people are competing more aggresively over a dwindling supply. This is all well and good, but I would love to see what else is going on in the world.
[/QUOTE]
It seems obvious that if DL’s human beings and remnants of their culture survived the nukecaust and the mini-Nuclear Winter, then the rest of the planet had to have made out considerably better. Under the set of conditions described in Pilgrimage to Hell, the Third World (southern hemisphere) would have instantly become the First, and vice versa.
Expansion of the series’ operational map (from DL to the post-nuke world) eliminates the necessity of dealing with the same, tired, political/economic structure in every book. After 20 years, the (invariablly perverted) DL “barons” are a boring cliché to read, and (take it from me) an unanesthetized root canal to write about.
Expanding the DL map eliminates dealing with the same menagerie of “ies” in every book (stickies, scalies, swampies, etc.).
It offers the companions a chance to take extended expeditions out into an unexplored, altered earth—there to discover new dangers, new challenges, new technologies (to them), and perhaps even find some new friends. (They could also pick up a change of underwear and some new blasters.)
Does this impede a DL connection to OL? I don’t know. Making sure that DL connected to OL was never part of my job.
Even though I took my best, last shot at addressing some of the complaints I’ve read about the series over the years, my advice is don’t get your hopes up for the future. Just because I got away with Plague Lords/Dark Resurrection doesn’t mean that any of the writers who follow me will be allowed to take Ryan and the others on adventures beyond the borders of the hellscape. If past is prologue, I think you can make book on seeing the companions once again chained by their small parts in some baronial dungeon, while upstairs the demented laird attempts intercourse with nonconsenting fruits and vegetables.
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| 3/3/2009 8:18 PM |
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[QUOTE]AP wrote
If past is prologue, I think you can make book on seeing the companions once again chained by their small parts in some baronial dungeon, while upstairs the demented laird attempts intercourse with nonconsenting fruits and vegetables.[/QUOTE]
Who knows maybe one day GE will be able to hire editors who can impose some consistent quality standards...and maybe even figure out a way to keep their best writers.
Speaking of one--I asked Mark on his forum about whether DL and Outlanders were in the same reality and he said they definately were, seperated by 100 years or so.
Not that it matters at this point. |
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APPublished Author Veteran Member Posts:346
| 3/4/2009 11:35 AM |
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Sorry, Raboy, but it sounds like you’re confusing apples and oranges (not to mention cabbages and cucumbers). It isn’t the ability of the current editors that’s in question; it’s the specific tasks they are assigned by the publisher. There is a huge difference between a Copy Edit/Line Edit (which is what GE editors do) and a Content/Developmental Edit. To use an automotive analogy: the former is a lube and oil change; the latter is an engine/tranny rebuild.
Copy and Line Edits deal with spelling, punctuation, grammar, and light revisions of sentence structure for clarity. Content and Developmental Edits deal with those elements, plus series continuity, structural issues, character development, and scene and plot execution.
GE doesn’t pay its freelance editors to do Content and Developmental Edits, which are much more time-consuming and therefore more expensive. GE always has been a cut-rate operation at the editorial end; trust me, their business plan isn’t going to change if they replace editors. New editors will be assigned to do the same jobs as the old ones—Copy and Line Edit. And new editors/new authors will always be at the mercy of the business plan. Do you feel me? |
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| 4/4/2009 10:18 PM |
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Just finished Plague Lords and Dark Resurection, do I detect a new tone? As to the future of the series, I've often thought the Mat-Trans method of getting around was overdone, I mean how many gates could there be, and why do they always hit a new one? As far as a new character addition to the series goes, Harmonica Tom would be good, but he's got his boat and I can't see him wandering around Deathlands with Ryan. Chucho might be another possibility......for awhile. Anyway I enjoyed the Empire of Xibalba series. Did anyone catch the tongue in cheek reference to the Deathlands series with the Slaughter Realms books and their author.
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APPublished Author Veteran Member Posts:346
| 4/5/2009 11:52 AM |
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Posted By roadbum on 04 Apr 2009 10:18 PM
Anyway I enjoyed the Empire of Xibalba series. Did anyone catch the tongue in cheek reference to the Deathlands series with the Slaughter Realms books and their author.
Roadbum, thanks for your comment. Glad you liked the DL Xibalba books. As to any references connecting DL and SR: What connection could there possibly be between two long-running, post-apocalyptic, writer-for-hire pulp series with multiple underpaid authors?  And what would be the point of cryo-freezing a hypothetical, composite writer for hire and sending him into the future to face the series characters (the music)?  If you’re interested in seeing how different DL and SR really are, you should go to www.slaughterrealms.com. Ron and I are in the process of reconstructing Daniel Desipio’s “lost" final Slaughter Realms manuscript. The SR site has a lot of material on the background of the series--including the complete "300-book" story arc. The Prologue to Dan's "lost" novel, Iroquois Vengeance, is also posted (complete with berserking Vikings, dying dinosaurs, flying saucer attack, and a sneak peek at the Iroquois Ninja Princess’s mesmerizing swordfighting style), and it’s free to read from the homepage. |
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| 4/5/2009 1:45 PM |
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You know I thought by now Dean might have popped up by now. Every new book that comes out I've been kind of half-expecting a hint as to Deans wherabouts, (I'm assuming he may still be in the east somewhere) you know, some passing mention by a character the companions run across that starts Ryan to thinking about his son again. I also can't get rid of the idea that they will cross paths with the Trader again.
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)3az )3aziahBritish Bloke Veteran Member Posts:1060 
| 4/5/2009 2:31 PM |
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I bet Dean will return not a day older and still saying "Hot pipe" at every opportunity.
At the moment it is like he never existed. I know if my Son went missing I would be doing everything in my power to find him save taking a trip to South America !!
=============================== Billy Fish: He wants to know if we are gods.
Peachy Carnehan: Not gods - Englishmen. The next best thing.
Please check out my FLICKR photos
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APPublished Author Veteran Member Posts:346
| 4/5/2009 3:59 PM |
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Posted By )3az )3aziah on 05 Apr 2009 02:31 PM
At the moment it is like he never existed. I know if my Son went missing I would be doing everything in my power to find him save taking a trip to South America !! Got to draw the line somewhere.  The decision to remove Dean from the crew was made above my paygrade (which isn't saying much). I didn't find out about it until the book in which the removal happened was in production. I registered my dismay and disbelief to ed-in-chief for what it was worth (nothing). I actually went to the trouble of explaining the boy's role in the series' structure and arc (not interested). In my last-ever DL, Doom Helix, I briefly raised the specter of Dean Cawdor because the book is about progeny and legacy. They may cut it out. |
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skullspliter New Member Posts:63 
| 4/5/2009 4:29 PM |
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Yes i have been thinking of dean for some time as well. Heck he has been gone for a couple years in the book time line i think. AP what was GE reason for getting rid of dean if i may ask? And as for the trader i just what to know what happened to him or see him in the future.
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APPublished Author Veteran Member Posts:346
| 4/5/2009 5:34 PM |
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Posted By skullspliter on 05 Apr 2009 04:29 PM
Yes i have been thinking of dean for some time as well. Heck he has been gone for a couple years in the book time line i think. AP what was GE reason for getting rid of dean if i may ask? And as for the trader i just what to know what happened to him or see him in the future. Skullspliter, As I recall I was told--and I admit I may not be remembering exactly right--it was a matter of the number of “main” characters (seven instead of six) that had to be dealt with in each DL book—they thought seven was an excessive number (although no evidence was ever presented to explain or justify that belief--Crikey, look at Stony Man). And they thought that Dean’s growing up complicated things for multiple authors and more importantly, for editorial. It makes it way harder to swap around the order of books (as interchangeable, homogenized “Entertainment Units”) if Ryan’s kid is actually getting older—in one book he’d be 20 and if you weren't careful, in the next he’d be back at 16. Swapping around the order of books is necessary because they don’t always get turned in on time, and because there isn’t a defined DL story arc that writers are supposed to follow. “Cluster-hump,” I believe is the technical term. Ryan, Krysty, J.B., Doc, Mildred, and Jak are already “full grown” so it is assumed that readers don’t expect their physical appearances to rapidly and markedly change, as happens when preteen boys mature. I thought dumping Dean was an idiot-move because his character fulfilled so many functions in the series, and on top of that I liked writing him. Oh, well … |
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The Phantom Basic Member Posts:219 
| 4/5/2009 7:38 PM |
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Each new book still has Dean listed in the standard cast of characters at the beginning of the book.
You would think GE would either remove his name from this, or at the very least, have the authors the freedom to have Ryan and the gang discuss Dean a little from time to time during some of the newer adventures.
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)3az )3aziahBritish Bloke Veteran Member Posts:1060
| 4/5/2009 7:55 PM |
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Posted By AP on 05 Apr 2009 05:34 PM
Ryan, Krysty, J.B., Doc, Mildred, and Jak are already “full grown” Not True. As of Dark Carnival Jak was only 15 (although he is said to look aound 19 in Neutron Solstice)-not much older than Dean. As the main characters never age then I guess Jak is still 15 now. I guess we are to forget this as well !! =============================== Billy Fish: He wants to know if we are gods.
Peachy Carnehan: Not gods - Englishmen. The next best thing.
Please check out my FLICKR photos
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APPublished Author Veteran Member Posts:346
| 4/5/2009 8:41 PM |
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Posted By )3az )3aziah on 05 Apr 2009 07:55 PM
Posted By AP on 05 Apr 2009 05:34 PM
Ryan, Krysty, J.B., Doc, Mildred, and Jak are already “full grown”
Not True. As of Dark Carnival Jak was only 15 (although he is said to look aound 19 in Neutron Solstice)-not much older than Dean. As the main characters never age then I guess Jak is still 15 now.
I guess we are to forget this as well !!
Better add that to the list you're keeping. Uh, wait a minute, Dark Carnival came 11 books after Neutron Solstice--did LJ forget how old he made Jak in the third book? Actually, my point, seemingly lost in translation, was that Dean is (or was) a boy--I don't think you can say that about Jak, whether he's 15 or 15 who looks 19. He's already had and lost a wife and daughter--and as I recall, he came to the series already battle-hardened in the third book. Dean was never depicted as physically or mentally mature. And at least in my recollection, there's huge difference in being 12 and being 15 or a little older. |
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Wordsmith-repriseFreelance Editor Basic Member Posts:150 
| 4/6/2009 5:29 AM |
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In most books prior to his marrying Christina, Jak was 14. He was out of the series for a few books, and because he spent time with Christina's family, married and had a child, he had to age "off camera' as it were, and rejoined the group 16 years old. Dean, as well, aged 2 years and became nearly 12 years old.
Dean is not going back in the foreseeable future. When he does, hopefully he'll age, as well.
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APPublished Author Veteran Member Posts:346
| 4/6/2009 9:50 AM |
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Posted By Wordsmith-reprise on 06 Apr 2009 05:29 AM
In most books prior to his marrying Christina, Jak was 14. He was out of the series for a few books, and because he spent time with Christina's family, married and had a child, he had to age "off camera' as it were, and rejoined the group 16 years old. Dean, as well, aged 2 years and became nearly 12 years old.
Dean is not going back in the foreseeable future. When he does, hopefully he'll age, as well. Thanks for the clarification. I couldn't go through my stash of LJ's DLs to check my facts because after I quit GE I boxed them all up and mailed them to a Books for Troops program. |
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Wordsmith-repriseFreelance Editor Basic Member Posts:150
| 4/6/2009 9:59 AM |
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That was for Baz, Al.
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Wordsmith-repriseFreelance Editor Basic Member Posts:150
| 4/6/2009 9:59 AM |
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That was for Baz, Al.
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)3az )3aziahBritish Bloke Veteran Member Posts:1060
| 4/6/2009 2:08 PM |
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In the days of LJ's Deathlands books we had continuity, something that we now sadly can't have back. With continuity we could measure the passing of time as one book continued from the next -usually with the line "Ryan opened his eye..."
I and several others used to keep a record of the passing of time during each book and assembled a timeline (we obviously didn't have lives back then).
Anyhow some 9 months pass between Book 3 Neutron Solstice (when Jak joins the group) and book 12 Latitude Zero (when Jak leaves the group).
A further 9 months then pass until we get to book 16 Moon Fate when Jak re-joins the group.
As Cathy notes Jak ages two years between book 12 and book 16, something that is never explained in a series of books that sticks to a rigid timeline from book to book. I once asked Laurence about this and he laughed saying it was a mystery but one which he planned to put right in a future book ? So DID 2 years pass between the books with 15 months passing between jumps as the group are stored in a Mat-Trans buffer or some such ?
Yes, Jak does act a lot more mature for his years and can I agree be called "Adult" but he's still a kid compared to the rest of the group.
=============================== Billy Fish: He wants to know if we are gods.
Peachy Carnehan: Not gods - Englishmen. The next best thing.
Please check out my FLICKR photos
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