Actually it's called a Lemat and to me a person who does not know their weapons is a hell of a lot more of a geek than someone who does.Calling guy's like me a "weapons geek" is like calliig a Green Beret or a Navy Seal a weapons dork.LOL!
I am sure you meant it in good humor so I am just teasin you buddy.
Actually I am not sure that Doc's weapon is a muzzle loader as it has been described here.It may well bee,but juding from the 18 gauge shell in the center(svand the 44 caliber(10)shells
Chris

Geek has many definitions one of them being: Geeks are pretty much people who have a real understanding for a certain topic eg Films, music, cars. It's usualy that they are totaly obsessed about the topic, or it's just something they think alot on.

Fair enough friend,At least you were dipolomatic in your response,unlike alot of the hostility I have encountered on this site.
Even though I Myself having a very long and extensive background in Firearms and edged weapons I am not obbsessed,yet I am fascinated by those topics,

Well I suppose I should have expressly included myself in the term weapons geek. The LeMat (thanks for the spelling correction) is a muzzle loader because each chamber of the cylinder and the shotgun barrell have to be loaded from the muzzle end. And I'd still like to know if Pollotta is deliberately needling us with his weapons errors.

Posted By North on 08 Jul 2009 09:56 AM

I also noticed that the Author had Jak in two places at once. He also said JB was unable to open the Sheriff's safe, but later he had JB produce a bag of diamonds he took from that same safe.

And then a suspicious flaw appears early in the story when the author describes Doc removing a shot shell from his LaMat and replacing it with a fresh one, when we all know his weapon is a muzzle loader.  It made me wonder if Nick deliberately stuck in this error to tweak the noses of the weapons geaks.

At some point in the continuum, one of the authors (I don’t think it was LJ) had Doc find a cartridge-firing version of his LeMat. I think there were only 5000 muzzleloading LeMats manufactured in France during the Civil War; and just 2500 of those managed to reach the Confederacy. Post-Civil War, far, far fewer cartridge (pinfire) models of this weapon were built. (Evidently, the ten-shooter was an idea whose time had come—and gone.) Doc’s finding a functional blackpowder LeMat in a museum is one thing, but stumbling across a rarer-than-hen’s-teeth upgraded version in the chaos of the hellscape seems just a TAD too convenient.

I can’t remember if Doc lost the cartridge-firing LeMat, or if it slipped through the cracks in the canon (like the Wyeth Codex). 

No problem buddy,sorry for correcting you on the spelling,one weapons geek to another though,I remember that Doc had lost his original Lemat a replaced it with a Jeb stuart Gold plated commemorative edition,Which I assumed to not be a muzzle loader,my mistake perhaps.
I pride myself on being a "J.B.Dix"type as I am 36 and have fired and owned almost every caliber known to man since I was 8 yrs old,(no experience with a Lemat though) LOL!
Chris,
p.s.
Any particular gun you would like Ryan to pick up and add to his armaments?
I would love to see him obtain a backup pistol like a SIG sauer P220.45 caliber,and a SIG sauer 556(5.56mm0aussault rifle!
Chris

Sorry to bother ya again but as far as if you are a gun nut like me,I have a whole list of gun"mistakes" that the authors make.

Laurence James had Traders"Battered Armalite" rifle chambered for a 9mm pistol cartridge!(that gun is in 5.56mm)an intermediate round!(No rifle in the world fires a pistol round)
Ryan's Sig Sauer has a"bulit in baffle silencer"(does not exist)
Plus as much as I love the SIG P226,Laurence James is constantly refering to it as a "huge blaster",The 9MM round is hardly the hand cannon that it has been made out to be by LJ and others.I love the 9mm Sig,I even own one,but the .45 caliber pistol is a "powerful Blaster"not Ryans 9mm!AlsoJ.b.s Uzi comes with 20 and 30 rd mags,not just 20 like the books say.

Posted By Another One Eyed Chiller on 09 Jul 2009 07:16 PM
...No rifle in the world fires a pistol round...

Ermm, I dont want to get dragged into this but these are all 9mm and rifle/carbines...

http://www.berettaweb.com...Storm/CX4_storm1.htm

http://www.ruger.com/Fire...AProdView?model=4701

http://calicolightweapons...e/index.php?page=9mm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ia7rkEgVRo

LeMat info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LeMat_Revolver

No offense takren my friend but you are quite wrong.Carbines Fire an intemediate non rifle,yet too large to be a pistol round.The 9mm round when fired from a larger than pistol sized gun is a submachine gun.

That beretta c4x storn=m you mentioned is not an assault rifle or a true carbine.it is a pistol with an extension to make it look like a carbine,also the Ruger Mini 14 fires a 5.56mm  intermediate round.
I hate to prove you wrong but I work part time in a gun shop,and have had millitiary training,2 years in the 8th cav scout first gulf war.
Too sum it up,Rifles fire large rounds like 308 or 30'06,our Mi garrands fired 30' 0'6 rounds in WW2 and Korea.The M16 fires an internmediate .223 round(too large for a subgun or pistol,yet to small for a rifle)Any time the 9mm or .45 caliber pistol round is fired ,unless it it's coming out of a submachine gun it is coming out of a pistol.
If you doubt me go to wickepedia.
P.s
The DEA has a M16 styled rifle that fires 9mm ammo.
It is calles a "Submachine gun"not a carbine.
Carbines fire intermediate rounds,not pistol rounds.

Only pistols and subguns fire pistol rounds

I conceed but you have to agree that in a world with any things that don't exist like MatTrans, Stickies, Cannies, Cryo freezing etc. A 9mm rifle is no more a stretch of the imagination.

I often wonder why so many people can believe in any of the above flights of fancy but argue about other such flights as 9mm rifles, 20 round Uzi's and such.

Its all fiction and matters not a jot outside the covers of the book ?

Jim

Sure you have a good point Jim,but if you recall I was originally discussing the matter with another gun enthusiast who also had a problem with how the fire arms in Death Lands are handled.

And I would have to politely disagree about your comparing the believability of the mat trams units,Stickies and freezies etc...

Those things are all ficticious,while an UZI and the nonexistent 9mm rifle are supposed to be based in reality.(oh yeah,don't you think JB would be combat savy enought to use 30 rd mags?)

I believe I was recenrly berated by an author on this site,his exact words were"whether the book is a work of fiction or not it has to be based in reality or else it is nothing more than fantasy like "The Lord Of The Rings"
I understabd that you don't seem to know or care about firearms which is ok,but I was born and bred with them so something like James Laurence having an assault rifle firing a  9mm pistol cartridge is ridiculous to me and insulting to my intelligence.
Hell,why not have Trader simply use a 9mm pistol or submachine gun if he wants him to fire a 9mm round..
p.s.
Believe me a 9mm rifle is a far bigger stretch of the imagination because by it's very definition it's use of a pistol round makes it a pistol or a submachine gun.In order for a weapon to be called a rifle it must fire a rifle round.

A side note: in Doom Helix, my final DL, I had Doc sit down on a rock and reload ALL TEN CHAMBERS of his LeMat while Ryan and the others looked on with impatience.  A laugh out loud moment. (This in lieu of having the relic blow up in his fist--which I could never have gotten past the editors.) 

Don't know if the reloading is a first or not.  Don't recall ever having seen it.  It's kind of the elephant in the room as far as Doc and the LeMat are concerned.  Baz, do you know if it was done before?

Do you remember the scene where Doc's weapon got wet in the corn field and he watched all of his powder run out of the chambers?   Which could have been prevented ( and I think Doc would know this) by sealing the chambers with grease to prevent an accidental firing of all of the chambers and to keep them dry. He has frequently been described as searching for black powder and percussion caps, a cartridge weapon it's not.  Since LJ had wanted to stick Doc with a vintage weapon there other more common choices such as a Navy Colt converted to fire cartridge rounds. But then he still has to find the brass and reload them.  And in a post-holocaust world, a muzzle loading black powder weapon should have been LJ's last choice.  Doc really should be dead by now.  It has only been the authors' cleverness that has kept the old boy alive.
Personally, I'm glad he's still in the series, and at least in Eden's Twilight he was using a more appropriate weapon in the heavy fire fights at Newton and Cascade.

<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;} p {mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0cm; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0cm; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin:36.0pt; mso-footer-margin:36.0pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> <!--[if gte mso 10]> Posted By Another One Eyed Chiller on 10 Jul 2009 08:36 AM

Sure you have a good point Jim, but if you recall I was originally discussing the matter with another gun enthusiast who also had a problem with how the fire arms in Death Lands are handled.

I don’t have a problem with this talk away…

And I would have to politely disagree about your comparing the believability of the mat trams units,Stickies and freezies etc...

Those things are all ficticious, while an UZI and the nonexistent 9mm rifle are supposed to be based in reality.(oh yeah, don't you think JB would be combat savvy enough to use 30 rd mags?)

OK so we don’t have a problem with fictitious things like Mat-trans units and such, but we do with fictitious weapons –strange? Obviously DL takes place in an alternative universe as we didn’t see Washington get destroyed back in 2001 so who is to say that in the DL universe the human race didn’t develop 9mm rifles, and what if only 20 round mags existed in this alternative world?

If J.B is so combat savvy then why the hell is he allowing not only himself but the rest of his companions to wander round with such a strange and eclectic choice of firearms?

I understand that you don't seem to know or care about firearms which is ok, but I was born and bred with them

Assume away, what you choose to understand about my knowledge of firearms is your prerogative, you‘re not the only unproven military type around here. As for what I care about them, well at the moment in the real world not a lot so long as no one chooses to point one at me that is!

So something like James Laurence having an assault rifle firing a 9mm pistol cartridge is ridiculous to me and insulting to my intelligence.

Just for your information James is his surname and Laurence his given name. The idea of muties evolving within 3 or so generations, massive biowep worms and dogs insult my intelligence but I read the books to escape from the dull, real world I’m now forced to work in, nothing more.

Hell, why not have Trader simply use a 9mm pistol or submachine gun if he wants him to fire a 9mm round...
p.s.
Believe me a 9mm rifle is a far bigger stretch of the imagination because by its very definition its use of a pistol round makes it a pistol or a submachine gun. In order for a weapon to be called a rifle it must fire a rifle round.

Why not have him use a catapult and spit balls instead?

If the author wants him to kill a goon with that or a sharpened mango he will. The item in question is a “PROP” to help the story along nothing more, so what he uses is immaterial to the finality of the tale.

 

 

 

 

On a final note I can’t remember (I will have to check this out) but is Trader described as using a “Battered Armalite” or a “Battered Armalite rifle”? I only ask as Armalite produce both rifles and carbines.

 

Could trader not have used a 9mm Armalite carbine (or retooled model)?

 

Right, I will leave you to your chat –enjoy !!

Well Jim as usual you are being argumentative and taking what I am saying out of context.I am not saying stickies are believable or mat trans units,they are pure fiction.as far as the Armalite rifle and the Uzi,they are supposed to be based in reality.
And as far as me being an "unoroven millitary type" at least I am stating facts,you are stating your opinion.Oh yeah,the Armalite is a Rifle chambered in 5.56mm,really popular with the IRA right now.And to prove you don't know much about firearms you keep throwing the word "Carbine"around.Do you even know what one is.This"unproven military type "does.A carbine is a short barrel version of a rifle.An M4 Carbine fires the same round as an M16,.223 caliber(5.56mm)
Once again I have to explain to you that 9mm weapons are classified as Submachineguns,not carbines.In WW2 there was an M1 Carbine firing a 30 cal short round.Other than that the only carbines in modern existence are shortened versioins of modern assault rifles,HkG36/Ak47/M16/etc....

Dude, you need to drop your sensitivity filter several notches. Jim was nothing but polite and you are acting like he pissed in your face. Chill.

P.s.Jim,

It seems to me that talking to you is like talking to a brick wall,you only hear what you want and choose to ignore facts that i state(not opinions)I was trying to be friendly and you seem to get off on being a prick.Oh yeah once again you say something ignorant for a man of your education"maybe since it is in an alternate world they invented 9mm rifles" uhh duh!Once again I have to point out that a weopon firing a 9mm round is by it;s very definition a pistol or SubGun.

Also your saying that you have no interest in guns in "the real world" unless one is pointed at you is one of the silliest things I have ever heard.In this very"real world" that we live in firearms are a harsh and necessary reality,unless you lead some sheltered life that I am not privy too.

Even alot of women own and use guns for sport and protection.

And I find it hillarious that you,someone who has probably never even owned or fired a gun is going to offer his uninformed opinions on guns to someone who owns and has been shooting firearms since age 8.Including an Uzi 9mm/Mac 10.45/SIG 9mm/380/22/44 magnum/M16 a2/!2 gauge Mossberg/5 shot taurus38/S&W 9mm's,etc......and a slew of ruger 9mm pistols

No ron,I dissagree,Jim making smart ass comments like using spit balls was uncalled for.

But I see how it is,you pretty much back your Veteran members no matter what they say.

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