UrbanSavage New Member Posts:56  
| 7/17/2009 12:57 PM |
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OEV ...you need to put all your posts together I lost track of where you were headed after the 5th one or so. Cut and paste them all into your word pad then paste them all back into ONE post...just a thought. The armalite in question is most likely a mahogany stocked AR10, manufactured circa 1954-59. it was Fairchilds first carbine for their new division(armalite). While it was a huge improvement over previous automatic weapons only 10,000 were ever made making them rare indeed and highly unlikely that trader ever found a functioning one. The precursor of the M16. they fired the standard 7.62 but were mostly ditributed outside the US to Nato countries. Of course you are right, that 9 MM has never been used as a carbine or rifle round. I just don't even recall where and in what book that was said. Mostly because I didn't care probably. Its (to me) a far too insignificant detail to notice except possibly at the moment I read it and then only in passing. My point being, and not to start anything here, is I think you and AOEC know this place a bit better then you let on. That being said the actions and words of certain "veterans" shouldn't surprise you and would be better ignored. Its the Internet...most of us knows each other from Adam except what we read and perceive through posting here. Just remember that. Personally I read the whole exchange and didn't think Jim or anyone said or did anything worth flying of the handle for. Argumentative maybe? Possibly a little, but what is a message board without a little friendly debate? As for sending PMs to Ron and becoming obstinate with the owner of the site..well....can't say I blame Ron for his actions. Ive always found him to be fair and a capable peacemaker. Kind of sad that he even does have to referee adults actually if you ask me.  |
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One Eyed Vengeance (Leonidas) Basic Member Posts:337 
| 7/17/2009 2:10 PM |
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My apologies,I am new and I am not making that up as you kind of hint.LOl!I actually am new to using a computer and really don't know even how to cut or paste,Sorry.
As far as the Traders Armalite(I am well aware of the armalite and it being the precursor to Stoners M16)current armalite is just an Ar 15 5.56mm,correct?It is mainly in Trader Redux where LJ has Trader borrowing 9MM rounds from Ryan for his rifle that I knew took 7.62mm.To me that is a huge,stupid mistake.(my opinion only)
As far as the whole AOEC thing goes I am not defending him and saying that he should of flew off the handle,but I also don't think it is as one sided as you say(again,my opinion)
And to politely disagree I am actually shocked at how a few certain members go out of their way to be real A-holes to the new guys.It might be the internet as you say,but I would think adults who like the same book would be more interested in talking politely than fighting is all.
Oh,I also do not blame Ron for his actions as I know exactly what was said and AOEC did it to intentionally Irk Ron so he would ban him rather than just quit the site.(not saying that was right either)But I also read the post between the Az A3 gentlemen or Jim?And it did seem to me that him and AOEC were being equally argumentitive and then AOEC got his rear end bit off by the owner.(just my observation)And whether he was in the wrong or not it did seem a bit funny that one of the guy's arguing was reprimanded and one was not(coincidentally the owners friend)?
Please,I do not wish to anger you,this Jim gentleman or Mr.Miles.I am much more interested in talking with intelligent adults like yourself about a book I enjoy!
"Molon Labe"........"Come And Take Them"
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Ron MilesWebsite Owner  Commander In Chief Posts:864 
| 7/17/2009 2:21 PM |
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Some general tips:
If you are replying to the last, most recent post in a thread, then using the Quick Reply box at the bottom of the page is fine.
If you are replying to a post that is not the most recent one in the thread, in order to make it easier to follow click the Quote icon at the top of that post. That will take you to a page to submit a reply, with the contents of the post you are replying to as part of the post. You can edit down the quoted part if you are just replying to a specific sentence.
Regarding the conversation between AOEC and Jim, I did not see Jim post anything that was even remotely abusive. He debated points, but at no point that I saw did he personally attack AOEC. On the other hand, AOEC made abusively disparaging remarks about the British, including swipes about bad teeth and being generally supportive of terrorists murdering British citizens. That was before AOEC went completely overboard. One of these things is not like the other.
"Sadly then I knew the answer. All her life she was a dancer, but no one ever played the song she knew." - The Residents
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One Eyed Vengeance (Leonidas)Basic Member Posts:337
| 7/17/2009 2:32 PM |
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No Ron That is completly untrue.I know you own the site and I do not wish to be banned. I have read the post where Jim was being insulting and argumentitive.AOEC simply stated facts about firearms.He said nothing that deserved you jumping his ass like you did in a very insulting manner.I find it awfully coincidental too that the only friend you have besides 2 authors is JIM???Aoec did make those insulting comments to Jim only after you blatantly sided with your buddy.Perhaps you might have done the same?I have also noticed that Jim has a tendency to insult newbies by calling then Trolls,yet you never seem to reprimand him?Or the countless other veterans that insult/harass/and call the new members names?
I appreciate that you run this site and I am grateful.It's just that you may consider running it fairly?
You should not have to referee adults,but if you do have to reprimand one then you should be fair and reprimand all involved in the arguing?Just a thought.I apologize if this uopsets you and I hope I do not get banned for voicing my opinion. "Molon Labe"........"Come And Take Them"
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One Eyed Vengeance (Leonidas)Basic Member Posts:337
| 7/17/2009 3:06 PM |
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Yeah,sorry(i'm new).
I think i have it figured out now.I was tring to answer things one at a time that people said and I guess it turned out wrong.
I think I have it now though,sorry again. "Molon Labe"........"Come And Take Them"
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One Eyed Vengeance (Leonidas)Basic Member Posts:337
| 7/17/2009 3:09 PM |
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Ok i see now,my mistake,I been posting on the reply at the top instead of the bottom.Opps and sorry I am a new guy(to the site not the books though)
"Molon Labe"........"Come And Take Them"
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UrbanSavageNew Member Posts:56
| 7/17/2009 4:20 PM |
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You can also add to your last post by simply hitting the edit button...instead of making a new post. Some board admins won't tolerate consecutive posting, (uses unnecessary bandwidth and clutters up threads with unnecessary posts), so my advice is to learn the edit button my friend.
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One Eyed Vengeance (Leonidas)Basic Member Posts:337
| 7/17/2009 5:17 PM |
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Yeah I got ya. Thanks.
I only posted so much today cause it was the first chance I had had to see all those posts about stuff that I had an opinion on.
From now on I am posting one reply at a time onlt to each letter I get in my e-mail.That should solve my multiple posting issues,correct? "Molon Labe"........"Come And Take Them"
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Bury The SunNew Member Posts:94 
| 7/17/2009 7:03 PM |
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...wowsa, extreme post-mania! lol
I just skimmed through Trader Redux again and lo' and behold! It's true, Trader's armalite uses 9mm... I've read and reread this book probably 15 times now and never even questioned that... jeez!
Just finished reading Desolation Crossing, and for those of you with HUGE problems towards Eden's Twilight I say to take heart and have hope, they can get better! lol
Sun
"Better to have weapons and not need them, than to not have weapons when you do need them." -Trader
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One Eyed Vengeance (Leonidas)Basic Member Posts:337
| 7/17/2009 7:33 PM |
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Don't feel bad man,when I was younger and did not have the gun knowledge I now posses I did not notice that Trader's"Battered Armalite" fired 9mm's either(sure,in fantasy land!)Yeah in reality it fired 7.62 mm rounds if it was a pre vietnam gun,otherwise it would fire 5.56mm(intermediate rounds,not full size rifle,but a hell of a difference in size and power than a 9mm pistol/sub machine gun round) Yeah,i did not know which button to click on that's why I posted so much(I keep gettin;my balls busted about that.LOL!) I got it right now so's everyone can quit bustin me chops.haha     "Molon Labe"........"Come And Take Them"
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Bury The SunNew Member Posts:94
| 7/17/2009 7:44 PM |
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wait, wait, wait... I didn't say I don't have gun knowledge, lol... what I meant to say is that I just let them spoon feed me that crap and didn't even notice it at all... thank you for the factoid though, so that is why it fires 7.62 eh? But before I sound to haughty and bull headed, it's true, I am relatively new to the gun scene, what with shooting for only 12 years now... lol Sun  "Better to have weapons and not need them, than to not have weapons when you do need them." -Trader
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One Eyed Vengeance (Leonidas)Basic Member Posts:337
| 7/17/2009 8:21 PM |
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No Idid not mean that at all my friend! I meant that I(not you,LOL!) had no real gun knowledge in my younger years like i do now.I have been shooting for28 yrs,but only developeda serious interest in military weapons and a good working knowledge and expierience with them in tghe last 10 or so. Sorry you thought that.I would have been a realpompous ass to say something crappy like that to you bro! Not my style at all.haha! "Molon Labe"........"Come And Take Them"
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UrbanSavageNew Member Posts:56
| 7/17/2009 9:46 PM |
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In reality my knowledge of military fire arms is quite limited. I'm more of a long gun man. Do a little hunting for whitetails here in Manitoba for which I use a Remington Model 760 .308 "Game-master" . A Remington spr94 .410/22 overunder for rabbits and grouse, and a Winchester Mauser model 66 .270 for Varmints (coyote, fox, fisher, martin, etc) and Pronghorn when I'm in Alberta. Use a veriity of slugs but mostly 130 grain for my .270 and 225 for my .308 for plowing bush (don't need speed anyway when your only getting 50 yards max of visibility). |
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One Eyed Vengeance (Leonidas)Basic Member Posts:337
| 7/18/2009 2:26 AM |
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That is quite respectable to me and kind of makes sense now why we had differing opinions on what was important as far as the "Blaster" mistakes by LJ. etc......I admit to having hardly any knowledge of the guns you have mentioned.Other than a single barrel 410 shougun I was given by my father to hunt rabbits and some minor experience with a 30-06 and a .22 rifle(as well as some over and under hunting shotguns,I know almost nothing of your area of firearms expertise.However I do tend to believe I am somewhat of an expert on Millitary/police type small arms,Nato and Warsaw pact,coming from a lifetime of reading about them ,owning and teaching myself how to operate and maintain my first SIG SAUER P220.45 Cal. and a Bushmaster semi auto AR 15 XM15 Ak Shorty Carbine.I have fired (and owned or still own)the following caliber firearms (starting at age 8) .22/.380/.9mm(alot).45/.38/.357 magnum.44 mag/410 gauge/20 gauge/12 gauge/5.56mm semi auto/.454/.50 cal(desert Eagle)I think the only bolt action rifle I ever fired was a Russian made WW2 era Mosin Nagant in 7.62?
Sorry about the long post.just letting you know I have a rather extensive background/knowledge with all things millitary mostly from WW1/WW2 through till present day.Also a big martial arts collector and practioner as well as being into knives(I even have my own "Panga") Mine might be better than Ryans as it is also nearly 18 inches long but has a polymer rubber/plastic handle and a serrated back edge
"Molon Labe"........"Come And Take Them"
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mikeclrBasic Member Posts:197 
| 7/18/2009 11:23 AM |
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Actually guys there are a number of actual 9mm carbines out there which are available including:
The Ruger PC9
Hi-Point 995B and 995CMO
Marlin Camp 9 Carbine
But...Armalite? Nope...that was strictly from LJ's imagination, but I think instead of it being a mistake it was an attempt on his part to create a "futuristic" weapon for Trader.
This could be considered comparable to the Sin-Eaters and Copperheads in OL...based on real tech, but non-exsistent in the real world...another example would be, if you read Matthew Reilly, the Armalite
MH-12 Maghook.
"Courage is not a man with a gun in his hand. It's knowing you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." - Atticus Finch
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One Eyed Vengeance (Leonidas)Basic Member Posts:337
| 7/18/2009 11:44 AM |
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Actually I don't wanna anger you my friend but you are kind of wrong.
All those weapons you mention do fire the 9mm round(and are genericaly refered to as "carbines" for sales purposes) but they are not classified as true carbines because a carbine is a shortened version of an assault rifle that fires the same round as said assault rifle.For instance an M4 Carbine is a short barreled version of an M16 rifle.(with the exception of the WW2 era MI.30 cal short Carbine)
You are right that the guns you mention are not pistols but I work in a local gun store part time(Marks Guns in NKY)and I am positive.I also have about the last4/5 gun digest books of modern assault weapons 2006/2007/2008/and 2009.
I hate to argue so just look it up online if you doubt what I am saying my friend or call your local gun store and ask them what the definition of a carbine is.Or check out the Gun Digest books of Modern assault weapons if you want.
Once again I have to state for the record this is a fact,not my opinion,that pistol (like the 9mm round)firing guns are either classified as pistols or sub machine guns with the exception of these hi point and other semi auto weapons you just mentioned.Very sorry my friend,I even just tripple checked by calling my boss Joe who owns Marks Guns in Florence Ky. to make sure.(these guns you mention simply are not carbines)
"Molon Labe"........"Come And Take Them"
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Bury The SunNew Member Posts:94
| 7/18/2009 1:15 PM |
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Alright fellas... we don't need another one of these discussions again, I mean, look what happened last time right? lol...
I had completely forgotten about the Hi-Point... I fired one a long time ago and it may have been the worst weapon I've ever fired... barring my old bent barreled B.B. gun that shot 4 feet to the left every time... lol
I believe what you are telling me OEV, they aren't classified as carbines... but with the proper mods and care, I imagine they could make alright assault rifles... I tend to stick with pistols and shotguns myself, being as I tend to fire and then aim... lol
Sun
"Better to have weapons and not need them, than to not have weapons when you do need them." -Trader
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One Eyed Vengeance (Leonidas)Basic Member Posts:337
| 7/18/2009 2:44 PM |
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Aww no way man.I think me and Mike clr can have a civil discussion without it getting ugly.I certainly mean no offense in any way ok?Don't worry this ain't gonna be another thing like w/my pal AOEC I promise!I just tend to state facts about firearms because I really honestly do have the facts and my intention is not to piss off anyone at all.
You are right that some of those guns would make ok weapons and I get ya about prefering pistols and Shotguns.I love Semi auto's myself(prefer 9mm's and .45 calibers)I also like Mossberg Persuader's or Mossberg "500"' 12 gauge shotgun.
But my favorite weapon I ever have owned was my Bushmaster XM15 AK Shorty Carbine (an AR 15 5.56mm short barreled rifle) "Molon Labe"........"Come And Take Them"
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mikeclrBasic Member Posts:197
| 7/18/2009 5:46 PM |
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Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree...you're right though... the definition and history of carbines is available on line for anyone interested... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CarbineBTW...I had one of those Daisy BB gun's that shot four feet to the left as well! "Courage is not a man with a gun in his hand. It's knowing you're licked before you begin but you begin anyway and you see it through no matter what." - Atticus Finch
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One Eyed Vengeance (Leonidas)Basic Member Posts:337
| 7/18/2009 7:52 PM |
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Thanks for saying something so adult Mike.
We will just have to agree to disagree sometimes(as you so eloquently stated),thats what intelligent fellas should do rather than be assholes towards each other.My apologies if I seemed argumentative,not my intention at all friend. "Molon Labe"........"Come And Take Them"
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